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YAK-3 From Russia with...
- Thread starter phantom II
- Start date
phantom II
Master at Arms
Here it is luiz gray model primer
I do believe that the gunze primer would be just as good
Cheers
phantom II
Master at Arms
Thanks Luiz, Bob ,Mike ,Dave .
It was going good till I started reading the post on VVS about Russian colors.
The same gentlemen that were arguing about the IL-2 (2-3 years ago ) are now arguing about the two gray tone .
I don't have that king of time . I found a good article and decipher what this guy done and I'm going to copy his work.
Not quite sure If I need to remove the gray paint or just give another coat of primer ? ? ?
Cheers, Christian B)
It was going good till I started reading the post on VVS about Russian colors.
The same gentlemen that were arguing about the IL-2 (2-3 years ago ) are now arguing about the two gray tone .
I don't have that king of time . I found a good article and decipher what this guy done and I'm going to copy his work.
Not quite sure If I need to remove the gray paint or just give another coat of primer ? ? ?
Cheers, Christian B)
Old Dog
Well-known member
I got hung up in loops when doing both my Il-2 and Pe-8 over colors. In the end I mixed my own which resulted in a lot of wasted paint until I finally got to where I wanted to be. They looked good to me but may be no closer to reality than any of the off the shelf colors. In the end who is going to argue or provide proof positive that what you used is wrong. Satisfy yourself and to heck with the egg spurts ! :tomato
phantom II
Master at Arms
In the end, there is supposed to be two sets of color swatches in Russia and not that readily available .
I have seen pictures of one set but even if so, do they stay that way in sunlight as opposed to a dark place.
I feel that the folks on the VVS forum will argue it forever and never get happy with anything . :vmad
I have a plan in place and am going to follow it as soon as I get some time...
Cheers, Christian B)
Some folks just like to argue, in the end what color is it really? Kinda like the OD question.
git'er done Chris.
Skinny_Mike
Well-known member
Looking forward to the paintwork!
Flyingbabydoc
Well-known member
Wonderful Christian.
I might get on a sabbatical, fly over to NC and learn something from you directly....
As for the discussion on the colours, it is widely known that "Color blindness" is one the extreme range of a fairly common, normal variation of colour perception in all humans. That means, everyone perceives Color a bit differently than the other person. It is a normal Distribution (Gauss curve), but there are all ranges of perception between the 5% and 95% percentile. No one can therefore be "absolutely sure" of one colour or another.
Cheers
Alex
I might get on a sabbatical, fly over to NC and learn something from you directly....
As for the discussion on the colours, it is widely known that "Color blindness" is one the extreme range of a fairly common, normal variation of colour perception in all humans. That means, everyone perceives Color a bit differently than the other person. It is a normal Distribution (Gauss curve), but there are all ranges of perception between the 5% and 95% percentile. No one can therefore be "absolutely sure" of one colour or another.
Cheers
Alex
ausf
Master at Arms
What I see is a crisp beautiful build.
In terms of color of a 70 year object, yikes. Memories change, film changes, paint chips change, printed material changes, even exact formulas of color will be different because over time, the paint medium itself has changed. Unless I had a piece of wing that was held for 70 years in a vacuum, I wouldn't trust it to appear the same as the original. The fact that we are looking at it either on a computer monitor or in printed material, the end version could have wildly different results.
As modelers, we tend to care more about the color of something that the men who worked on, flew/drove/sailed on/in them.
In terms of color of a 70 year object, yikes. Memories change, film changes, paint chips change, printed material changes, even exact formulas of color will be different because over time, the paint medium itself has changed. Unless I had a piece of wing that was held for 70 years in a vacuum, I wouldn't trust it to appear the same as the original. The fact that we are looking at it either on a computer monitor or in printed material, the end version could have wildly different results.
As modelers, we tend to care more about the color of something that the men who worked on, flew/drove/sailed on/in them.
phantom II
Master at Arms
As long as we're speaking of colors , I will mention , camera , possible film, film developing , monitor, and lighting.
Anyhow AMT-11 and AMT-12 supposedly faded very quickly . As if this were not bad enough, I think they were both lacquers and my recollection of lacquer painted cars is that the paints turned chalky quickly if not waxed regularly....
All that aside, what we need when modeling is a reference point to start from :coolio . Otherwise blue could easily be another color like brown.
I have always been very positive about the Akan line of paints but I have an issue with their interpretation of AMT-11 which is supposed to be the lighter of the gray tones.
It dried several shades darker than what it appeared when first sprayed on .
Anyhow, light sanding and a wash job. Light coat of primer coming up shortly to hide the dark shades.
Cheers, Christian B)
Anyhow AMT-11 and AMT-12 supposedly faded very quickly . As if this were not bad enough, I think they were both lacquers and my recollection of lacquer painted cars is that the paints turned chalky quickly if not waxed regularly....
All that aside, what we need when modeling is a reference point to start from :coolio . Otherwise blue could easily be another color like brown.
I have always been very positive about the Akan line of paints but I have an issue with their interpretation of AMT-11 which is supposed to be the lighter of the gray tones.
It dried several shades darker than what it appeared when first sprayed on .
Anyhow, light sanding and a wash job. Light coat of primer coming up shortly to hide the dark shades.
Cheers, Christian B)
phantom II
Master at Arms
Well, if this is the lighter gray ,that would make the darker gray nearly black tohave some contrast.
:facepalm can't really picture it
cheer, Christian B)
:facepalm can't really picture it
cheer, Christian B)
Flyingbabydoc
Well-known member
Very nice!
I guess the whole question of gray - black is on how much blue was mixed. I was reading that some of the paint manufacturers got into Trouble with Stalin (that Thing with the resin-glue that would peel off the YAK-1 fighters) and so had to "circumvent" the specifications by adding blue to the gray and black - that is why the soviet shades of dark gray and black are difficult. If it is true, I dunno...
Cheers
Alex
I guess the whole question of gray - black is on how much blue was mixed. I was reading that some of the paint manufacturers got into Trouble with Stalin (that Thing with the resin-glue that would peel off the YAK-1 fighters) and so had to "circumvent" the specifications by adding blue to the gray and black - that is why the soviet shades of dark gray and black are difficult. If it is true, I dunno...
Cheers
Alex
phantom II
Master at Arms
Well Gentlemen I have arrived at a decision .
Since these paints supposedly faded so rapidly and no one seems to have a good sample available , I thing that my guess work will have the same chance to be wrong as anyone else's .
The difference will be that I will not demand that you believe that I had superior knowledge of the subject matter :coolio
Saddly , I don't have one of the colors and the second has become petrified....Now, they are between here and Hong Kong .
Please stand by :S
Alex, some of the samples that I looked at looked more greenish than blue :idonno
I also compared the colors from my desk top to my Kindle and they are less than a perfect match.
Having to do some color research on gray paint years years ago, I'm not sure that it actually exist .
Black + white will give you gray . However adding white to any gray will bring out brown, green , blue or purple sooner or latter .
In regards to this :
I guess the whole question of gray - black is on how much blue was mixed. I was reading that some of the paint manufacturers got into Trouble with Stalin (that Thing with the resin-glue that would peel off the YAK-1 fighters) and so had to "circumvent" the specifications by adding blue to the gray and black - that is why the soviet shades of dark gray and black are difficult. If it is true, I dunno...
I have read more than once that the Yaks did not have long service lives because the glues would debond and they experienced structural failures .
One description stuck to my mind, although it may have referred to a LAGG ... " Certified varnished coffin "
Cheers, Christian B)
Since these paints supposedly faded so rapidly and no one seems to have a good sample available , I thing that my guess work will have the same chance to be wrong as anyone else's .
The difference will be that I will not demand that you believe that I had superior knowledge of the subject matter :coolio Saddly , I don't have one of the colors and the second has become petrified....Now, they are between here and Hong Kong .
Please stand by :S
Alex, some of the samples that I looked at looked more greenish than blue :idonno
I also compared the colors from my desk top to my Kindle and they are less than a perfect match.
Having to do some color research on gray paint years years ago, I'm not sure that it actually exist .
Black + white will give you gray . However adding white to any gray will bring out brown, green , blue or purple sooner or latter .
In regards to this :
I guess the whole question of gray - black is on how much blue was mixed. I was reading that some of the paint manufacturers got into Trouble with Stalin (that Thing with the resin-glue that would peel off the YAK-1 fighters) and so had to "circumvent" the specifications by adding blue to the gray and black - that is why the soviet shades of dark gray and black are difficult. If it is true, I dunno...
I have read more than once that the Yaks did not have long service lives because the glues would debond and they experienced structural failures .
One description stuck to my mind, although it may have referred to a LAGG ... " Certified varnished coffin "
Cheers, Christian B)
Flyingbabydoc
Well-known member
Right you are - those were the LAGGs:
"Sertifitsirovany Lakirovannyy Grob" (or Сертифитсированы Лакированныы Гроб) - they were not that bad, but...
The YAKs did break up in pieces due to bad glue. Until Stalin threatened to kill the entire factory. Somehow afterwards it worked.. :smack :smack :smack
I should brush up in my Russian... Getting very rusty.
досвиедание мои Другие!
Алех
"Sertifitsirovany Lakirovannyy Grob" (or Сертифитсированы Лакированныы Гроб) - they were not that bad, but...
The YAKs did break up in pieces due to bad glue. Until Stalin threatened to kill the entire factory. Somehow afterwards it worked.. :smack :smack :smack
I should brush up in my Russian... Getting very rusty.
досвиедание мои Другие!
Алех
