Plastik Smurff
Well-known member
I like Aeroplane jelly,aeroplane jelly for me.I like it for breakfast I like it for tea.......... :pp
:yipee
:yipee
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CRITIQUE OR RIVET COUNTING? AN EDITORIAL
- Thread starter MrT
- Start date
- Status
Oh no my ears are bleeding now :laugh: :evil: :yipee
Their coming to take me away haha their coming to take me away... :geek
DaneBramage
Member
Mats!!! you stole my poster LOL it is totally awesome.
Yeah I thought there only a couple of "planets" to choose from on the Net when I was toying with the idea of getting back in the Hobby Seven years ago. Then came the day I saw something that will never leave my mind. I witnesses a 12-14 (I can't remember) year old kid get eviscerated by three modelers. Hell that kid's model Panther was better than the one I made when I was his age. The kid never came back. After that was clear a couple of months after that I emailed the kid to make sure he was ok and he said that Modeling was not for him. He was getting into WWII video games. We are all going to die and so will this hobby if we treat the young like that. We need them and making $350.00 kits with PE etc. is not helping. Bob Letterman hit the nail on the head when he said that those bullies don't build anything. When I see a new name pop up and they rip apart some one's work, I always PM them and ask to see examples of their work. I get stories like (my camera's broken or I have arthritis or I did some ships a while back let me see if I can dig up some pics) total BS. They scurry away. I hate that crap. I was bullied in school and I can't stand a bully to this day especially one with "keyboard courage". Pathetic. I almost decided to not return to the hobby until I stumbled on another Forum that is a Sub site of a magazine- Very laid back and friendly about 20 people tops. If it weren't for them I'd probably be playing golf(doubtful badminton is more like it). Then I stumbled on another forum that lost some fat (heads) and became this one. I cannot afford a $200.00 caliper... I love modeling. I think the best advice is that which is solicited. My maw maw told me to never offer my opinion unless asked for it. She was a good woman.
Yeah I thought there only a couple of "planets" to choose from on the Net when I was toying with the idea of getting back in the Hobby Seven years ago. Then came the day I saw something that will never leave my mind. I witnesses a 12-14 (I can't remember) year old kid get eviscerated by three modelers. Hell that kid's model Panther was better than the one I made when I was his age. The kid never came back. After that was clear a couple of months after that I emailed the kid to make sure he was ok and he said that Modeling was not for him. He was getting into WWII video games. We are all going to die and so will this hobby if we treat the young like that. We need them and making $350.00 kits with PE etc. is not helping. Bob Letterman hit the nail on the head when he said that those bullies don't build anything. When I see a new name pop up and they rip apart some one's work, I always PM them and ask to see examples of their work. I get stories like (my camera's broken or I have arthritis or I did some ships a while back let me see if I can dig up some pics) total BS. They scurry away. I hate that crap. I was bullied in school and I can't stand a bully to this day especially one with "keyboard courage". Pathetic. I almost decided to not return to the hobby until I stumbled on another Forum that is a Sub site of a magazine- Very laid back and friendly about 20 people tops. If it weren't for them I'd probably be playing golf(doubtful badminton is more like it). Then I stumbled on another forum that lost some fat (heads) and became this one. I cannot afford a $200.00 caliper... I love modeling. I think the best advice is that which is solicited. My maw maw told me to never offer my opinion unless asked for it. She was a good woman.
My God, What else can one say? We have all suffered this B.S. Enough is enough!
Very well said!
Bob
Well...I'll say something...
I gotta ask, what hobby are you talking about? Building models or posting on the internet? I do feel it is sad that someone
decides to stop modeling after posting their work on the web, but really...are you going to stop doing something you love
because some anonymous jerks have told you it's crap?
And are you going to improve when a bunch of anonymous buddies tell you your work is great?
There is nothing that says you need to show your work to anyone, on the web or at contests, anywhere. I'm sure there
are modelers out there that are fantastic, that few rarely see there work.
I have to say (ducks and runs for cover) that this site is a bit complacent. Truly amazing work and mediocre slock jobs
get the same "atta boys", "great work", "wish I could do that" kind of comments. Are we really afraid to speak our minds?
I would never tell someone that they are wasting their time and should go find another hobby, but I believe
constructive comments should always be welcome. We are all Masters or students or somewhere in between and to run and
hide when someone critizes your work I think is a waste.
Well, I've blabbed enough, better go...
Tom
Ken Abrams
Well-known member
...and to make derogatory remarks about what they do, or call them names really makes 'us' no better than 'them'
whoever us and them are.
fightnjoe
Active member
let me say this, i have taken my lumps on the net for stuff i have posted. it is part of the experience. a few years back i took a pretty good beating for actually foiling a p-38 with tinfoil when all the crowd was yelling for me to paint it with alclad and metalizers. there have been others but that is one that stuck out for me. i make no bones about it. my work should not be on the same forum with most of what is here. this mustang i am working on now, well you have seen it. not that great. however i choose to post it here and other places. i encourage all comments and criticisms. i have had one respond that it was way too heavy. my scratchbuilding was too thick and gave a heavy appearance. that is the nature of the beast. when you post you have to understand that you are putting something out there that shows all that is good and all that is bad. that picture will not lie. i have seen a few that have had builds ripped apart, then they decided that this was not the hobby for them. the experience does not go just one way. as a person who responds you have the choice to give good constructive comments or you have the choice to nitpick the build. but if you put your work out there and you get ways to improve then you as the builder have to choose whether to say thanks for the help or you say piss on you i will do it my way. as with most things there are the two sides.
as a responder you have a path to choose and as a builder you also have a path to choose.
joe
Ken Abrams
Well-known member
lol ^
I agree, everyone should be able to post whatever it is they do for fun without ridicule. Out of boxers and rivet counters alike, people just need to be civil with each other that's all.
It's really quite simple. :v
I agree, everyone should be able to post whatever it is they do for fun without ridicule. Out of boxers and rivet counters alike, people just need to be civil with each other that's all.
It's really quite simple. :v
Well, he's the admin...he can say what he wants
Joe, I have meant to comment on your work, and I regret that I haven't...You are a brave
and adventurous modeler, you do things others would be afraid to...that...I think is the spirit of modeling.
Tom
Well, he's the admin...he can say what he wants
Tom
Sometimes you just can't sugar coat it Tom. :coolio
fightnjoe
Active member
Well, he's the admin...he can say what he wants
Joe, I have meant to comment on your work, and I regret that I haven't...You are a brave
and adventurous modeler, you do things others would be afraid to...that...I think is the spirit of modeling.
Tom
mp we agree to disagree.
tom i do the things i do because a long time ago i chose to go my own path. believe me when i say my references to others works and my "comparing" my work to theirs is purely for making a point. i build how i choose. i do not take the easiest of paths most of the time. i try to replicate what i see in pictures. i have not in my time on the net allowed others to dictate to me what or how i am to build. i am an admirer of those like chuck and others (pardon me chuck but you are in this case the best example) who can take plastic, metal, etc and make these wonderful replicas of actual subjects. i am in awe and strive to work toward that or similar results. but i have not allowed myself to be dictated to in a very very long time. not here and not in real life.
joe
Ken, for the record, you can critique my work anytime you want! I know it would be constructive.
I agree completely, but I would emphasize the key word here is "civil". I won't post names of websites, but I am a member of this one because I have seen, (Not experienced), what kind of crap goes on in so many. I both build and post for enjoyment. As you do, I use my real name and most know where I can be contacted. Throughout my modeling career, I have learned equally from masters and novices and everybody in between. In the two years I competed back in the early 80s, I learned far more from my losses than from my victories. You can learn from anybody and I have always welcomed "CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM". I have received that many times on this site from both great modelers and beginners alike. I have learned several things about half tracks from you.
I welcome research advice from those who don't build but have a knowledge of a vehicle or uniform that I don't. What I don't like is when those who don't have a clue about modeling rip into somebody who is starting out and destroys a newbie who is looking for some guidance. I have seen far too much of that in model clubs and on the flame war web sites.
For the record, I have always welcomed friendly, civil, constructive advice. However, the world is full of jerks, we all know them and we've all dealt with them. That is what I was referring to and I assumed was the general subject matter of this thread.
Bob
Joe, you have EVERY right to post what makes you happy on this forum. I wasn't joking about the "build how you like - Like how you build" mantra. You put it out there for all to see and the camera doesn't lie, it simply magnifies the work. The person looking at the images then needs to realize the scale of the model you are working on before they say things even if constructive.
There are limitations and these include a larger scope than just skill. For example; time. Some people have a lot of time to dedicate to a build and can start over repeating a detail until they (not their audience) are satisfied. There is cost, some can't afford the detail sets thanks to the World economy so you make do with what one has at hand.
Let us not forget the purpose of the modeler's hobby. If a modeler wants to have a large collection, they won't spend as much time on a kit since they wish to move one. Or the modeler is a wargamer, those kits are built to be handled so the details and paint jobs are definitely not the same as a static model. I know of modelers who enjoy the build and take their time. Others speed through the build and slow down at the finishing stages to savor that part. Are we to exclude some modelers because they are not the same type as the one we see in a mirror?
Every time you post, I have noticed you move forward trying something new. so why would I not want you to share? I am sure you can post an older build and see the progress you have made. If you never posted them, how would others see it too?
Had you asked about the hydraulics in the Mustang's main gear wells, I could post up many photos, schematics, and official manual illustrations. If I did that, am I to believe you are to replicate every hose, cable, conduit, switch, valve, bulkhead, solenoid, spring, etcetera? Absolutely not. I want to know, are you having fun? In the end, that is what matters. When it no longer is fun, that is when to leave the hobby (temporarily of course).
Regards,
Ken Abrams
Well-known member
Bob, forgive me if you thought I was directing anything at you, as that wasn't my attention. I was really just making a blanket statement about the topic and it was directed at no one person in particular.
It's just, while I saw the humor in the previously posted picture, and didn't feel personally insulted or anything like that, I still think it walks a fine line of what could be considered hypocrisy. The message in that picture alludes something akin to 'my way is better' when it implies that "I'll be building the model, while you waste time counting the rivets".
This is the very same attitude that a 'rivet counter' critiquing another builders work is said to portray, that their way is better/superior etc. Now, of course I'm not referring to some mean jerk hurting a young persons feelings on a forum, that would be ridiculous of me to defend and in all honesty, I would be the first person to stand up (and have done so very recently on ML) and defend that persons right to build whatever/however they enjoy.
That's really all I meant to say, that if we truly want to be treated fairly and accepted for what we do as individuals by others we must in turn do the same exact thing in return. We can't condemn someone for throwing stones from one side of the fence, by throwing a different stone back at them.
:v
It's just, while I saw the humor in the previously posted picture, and didn't feel personally insulted or anything like that, I still think it walks a fine line of what could be considered hypocrisy. The message in that picture alludes something akin to 'my way is better' when it implies that "I'll be building the model, while you waste time counting the rivets".
This is the very same attitude that a 'rivet counter' critiquing another builders work is said to portray, that their way is better/superior etc. Now, of course I'm not referring to some mean jerk hurting a young persons feelings on a forum, that would be ridiculous of me to defend and in all honesty, I would be the first person to stand up (and have done so very recently on ML) and defend that persons right to build whatever/however they enjoy.
That's really all I meant to say, that if we truly want to be treated fairly and accepted for what we do as individuals by others we must in turn do the same exact thing in return. We can't condemn someone for throwing stones from one side of the fence, by throwing a different stone back at them.
:v
fightnjoe
Active member
but in the time you have known me saul i believe you know that although i may not achieve the 100% accuracy i would give it a solid try.
i agree whole heartily with you when you say if it is not fun it may be time to leave the hobby. is it fun? well ask my wife she may say differently but yes.
i am a realist, i know what my limitations are and i know what my skill level is. i also know that if you sit still in life and do not try to advance yourself you die. to clarify, if you strive to stay the same as you were yesterday, if you choose not to move forward in learning, in bettering yourself, you will stagnate yourself. builders who do not attempt to move forward, to improve their skills, well they stagnate. it almost seems they lose something. i play at this. the kits i work with are the variety that it doesnt give me a heart attack to cut them or to sand away detail. i also firmly believe that it is the builders right to post what makes them happy, to build what they like/how they like, within the scope of the "rules" of each particular forum. i am however a firm believer that if you dont take the chance to stumble, if you dont climb out on a limb every now and then, you lose something. i encourage others to give a shot to something new. be it a new way to paint, a new construction technique, or to attempt to add some added detail. cheers or jeers, who cares? you tried something, you advanced.
another long winded response from me.
btw with what i have learned with my last few builds i am looking forward to my next hawk build.
joe
We're all modelers here- and we do give crit when we know enough to do so wisely. Encouragement is just as important- after all, we do this for fun, don't we? We all get "feedback" at our jobs, etc- and anyone worth a rat's patoot will know how accept or reject it, and do either gracefully. I don't necessarily feel the need to lecture any of you about how you should enjoy your free time. If you ask, hey, I'll happily throw in my two cents. If not, well, cheers!
Hey, Joe- you're all too kind, my friend- I'm just having fun figuring out how the Big Boys do this thing, and yappy enough to post about my progress in learning it. My thanks, and of course, cheers! :drinks
Cheyenne
Moderator
There is always a diplomatic way to say anything , ..........
There is always no reason to say anything if you don't like something ............
There is always room to help/advise everyone in a friendly manner ............ beginner , average modeler , pro , master .
Bullies think they're helping you with their acidic critiques [ hope I spelt that one right ? ] .......... when in all reality they get off on their sadistic comments , makes em feel important , .......... and oooooh boy do they hate being proven wrong .
Hey don't worry , that's why I like hangin out here , .......... besides beginner , novice , pro , ........ I got your back .........
Sam Elliot , come on , really :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
There is always no reason to say anything if you don't like something ............
There is always room to help/advise everyone in a friendly manner ............ beginner , average modeler , pro , master .
Bullies think they're helping you with their acidic critiques [ hope I spelt that one right ? ] .......... when in all reality they get off on their sadistic comments , makes em feel important , .......... and oooooh boy do they hate being proven wrong .
Hey don't worry , that's why I like hangin out here , .......... besides beginner , novice , pro , ........ I got your back .........
Sam Elliot , come on , really :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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