Logistics, The armor Updated May 24th, 2017.
Hey John,
I haven't heard from you in a long, long time!
Welcome back!
Bob
Hey John,
I haven't heard from you in a long, long time!
Welcome back!
Bob
-
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Logistics, The armor Updated May12, 2021.
- Thread starter bob letterman
- Start date
iambrb
Well-known member
Logistics, The armor
Just Very thankful to see the work you are doing, a great job to be sure!
Just Very thankful to see the work you are doing, a great job to be sure!
Logistics, The armor
Thanks much! BTW, It's good to see you back and posting again as well!
Bob
Thanks much! BTW, It's good to see you back and posting again as well!
Bob
Logistics, The armor Updated May 24th, 2017.
Thank you sir!
Much appreciated!
Bob
James
Thank you sir!
Much appreciated!
Bob
Logistics, The armor Updated May 24th, 2017.
Another update, I'm rolling right along with these Shermans. I want to finish the first three which have been painted, (Base Coat), for a long time and can take the Rectified Turpentine wash with no concern about losing paint.
I began with the M4A1 76mm. I used my old school raw umber artist's oil and rectified turpentine wash. If this is done correctly, and washes are notoriously applied incorrectly, it will do much of the weathering for you. As you remove the wash by blotting, not rubbing, if you pay attention, you can remove it in places you want it removed and can save you a lot of work dry brushing later!
This is the M4Ai 76mm, completely washed and blotted, next to a base coat only M4A3E8. It dried overnight to a nice totally flat finish. I broke off several pieces including the left side turret add on armor. That always happens and will be reattached later.
Then I switched the two for a closer look.
Then, here are both with wash completed.
Next, all three washed and after drying, ready to begin further weathering!
Another angle.
I'll let them dry for 24 hours while I prepare the tracks, (Building, painting and rusting), and maybe start preparing all the figures that will be on them.
To be continued!
Another update, I'm rolling right along with these Shermans. I want to finish the first three which have been painted, (Base Coat), for a long time and can take the Rectified Turpentine wash with no concern about losing paint.
I began with the M4A1 76mm. I used my old school raw umber artist's oil and rectified turpentine wash. If this is done correctly, and washes are notoriously applied incorrectly, it will do much of the weathering for you. As you remove the wash by blotting, not rubbing, if you pay attention, you can remove it in places you want it removed and can save you a lot of work dry brushing later!
This is the M4Ai 76mm, completely washed and blotted, next to a base coat only M4A3E8. It dried overnight to a nice totally flat finish. I broke off several pieces including the left side turret add on armor. That always happens and will be reattached later.
Then I switched the two for a closer look.
Then, here are both with wash completed.
Next, all three washed and after drying, ready to begin further weathering!
Another angle.
I'll let them dry for 24 hours while I prepare the tracks, (Building, painting and rusting), and maybe start preparing all the figures that will be on them.
To be continued!
Skinny_Mike
Well-known member
Logistics, The armor Updated May 28th, 2017.
Nice work Bob. It's like a little assembly line you have going there!
Nice work Bob. It's like a little assembly line you have going there!
Logistics, The armor Updated May 24th, 2017.
You and me both Dave!
Bob
Great to see some progress on this again!
You and me both Dave!
Bob
Logistics, The armor Updated May 28th, 2017.
You only build those flying targets I thought!
Bob
You only build those flying targets I thought!
Bob
Logistics, The armor Updated May 28th, 2017.
Thanks Mike,
There are actually 8 Shermans altogether! All are base coated, I'm finishing these three first and give the other three time for the paint to harden!
Bob
Nice work Bob. It's like a little assembly line you have going there!
Thanks Mike,
There are actually 8 Shermans altogether! All are base coated, I'm finishing these three first and give the other three time for the paint to harden!
Bob
Heavens Eagle
Well-known member
Logistics, The armor Updated May 28th, 2017.
Paint work for me can be the scariest part of building Bob. So many of you make it look so easy, but it almost always ends up a struggle for me. I can hardly imagine trying to do more than a couple of kits at a time.
Those Shermans are looking real good!
Paint work for me can be the scariest part of building Bob. So many of you make it look so easy, but it almost always ends up a struggle for me. I can hardly imagine trying to do more than a couple of kits at a time.
Those Shermans are looking real good!
iambrb
Well-known member
Logistics, The armor Updated May 28th, 2017.
Wow Bob, you made an impression!
Wow Bob, you made an impression!
Brokeneagle
Master at Arms
Logistics, The armor Updated May 24th, 2017.
Hey Bob, you have grabbed my interest with 'they were all upgraded by the February 1945 directive ...I have to have some more info now. Being a German armor guy mainly, I had not heard of that. Can you elaborate please?
Ian.
B)
One of the things that I really love about models is the ability to show so many variants of a type of vehicle, side-by -side. Its going to be a real point of interest for your dio (once people have taken in the whole seen) when people look into the details of the scene and see all of these Sherman variants. Love it!
Ian.
Thanks Ian, I hear you! What I like about this group of Shermans is that they were varied marks, some old, some newer and everything in between, but, they were all upgraded by the February 1945 directive that makes them kinda resemble each other yet, each still has it's individual character and personalities!
Bob
Hey Bob, you have grabbed my interest with 'they were all upgraded by the February 1945 directive ...I have to have some more info now. Being a German armor guy mainly, I had not heard of that. Can you elaborate please?
Ian.
Logistics, The armor Updated May 28th, 2017.
Thanks Paul!
The truth is, painting and weathering vehicles. or planes or ships for that matter, and doing it well, is the most difficult part of the modeling experience. Learning to build, scratch build, modify and detail are all things pretty much anybody can master. The rub comes in because painting and weathering is an art form. And having artistic ability is something that gives those that have it an advantage. I have watched great artists come on the scene during my life. People like Mig Jimenez for example. His first model was amazing! People with some artistic ability definitely have an advantage. I have some, nothing like people like Mig, or, here on modelers Alliance, Chuck Wotjkiewicz or Ian Hill, for example, but enough that painting is not as difficult for me as for some.
I always recommend to people without any artistic ability to find a good system, (there are many out there), study it, practice, practice and practice some more. Good systems can be learned and developed into your skill set.
Bob
Thanks Paul!
The truth is, painting and weathering vehicles. or planes or ships for that matter, and doing it well, is the most difficult part of the modeling experience. Learning to build, scratch build, modify and detail are all things pretty much anybody can master. The rub comes in because painting and weathering is an art form. And having artistic ability is something that gives those that have it an advantage. I have watched great artists come on the scene during my life. People like Mig Jimenez for example. His first model was amazing! People with some artistic ability definitely have an advantage. I have some, nothing like people like Mig, or, here on modelers Alliance, Chuck Wotjkiewicz or Ian Hill, for example, but enough that painting is not as difficult for me as for some.
I always recommend to people without any artistic ability to find a good system, (there are many out there), study it, practice, practice and practice some more. Good systems can be learned and developed into your skill set.
Bob
Logistics, The armor Updated May 24th, 2017.
Thanks Ian,
I read up on this several years ago and i am probably a bit rusty on details. In February, 1945, the Fourth Armored Division issued a directive to all units that a "kit" had been developed to up armor and up gun all M-4 Sherman tanks in the division in the field. The armor involved was of a specific size and shape cut from destroyed Welded hull Shermans and German Panther tank glacis plates and side hull armor. These fabricated plates were welded to the glacis plates of the Shermans and an added sheet of armor bolted to the transmission covers below. Another plate was welded to each side of the hulls with a 2 inch space provided between the add on armor and the hull sides. Two three piece armor sheets were also welded to the turret sides.
As to armament, all main guns were upgraded to 76 mm that weren't as yet. The mantlet .30 cal.machine guns were upgraded to .50 cal., the .50 cal. turret machine guns were moved to the rear of the gunner's hatch, and a new .30 cal. machine gun was mounted on the top of the commander's periscope cover. Back then I looked into how they utilized this program with the cast hull M4A1s. I found a photo of an M4A1 that used the same "kit" but where the flat add-on glacis plate armor attached, steel rods were used at the two top corners to attach it to the hull.
General Patton most likely had something to do with this directive as he hated the sand bag armor used by so many Sherman crews. Later, Omar Bradley visited Fourth Armored Division in the field, was so impressed with the up gunning and up armoring, that he recommended it to some of the armored divisions in northern Europe. No idea to what extent they were used there?
About 8 Years ago, Dragon models released Colonel Creighton Abrams, "Thunderbolt Seven' M4A3E8 with the upgraded armor and armaments. It was a great kit, the only flaw was the side hull armor extended from the hull to the edges of the sheet metal side fenders. They have to be sanded down considerably as they only extended half way to the edges.
Hope this help Ian!
Bob
B)
One of the things that I really love about models is the ability to show so many variants of a type of vehicle, side-by -side. Its going to be a real point of interest for your dio (once people have taken in the whole seen) when people look into the details of the scene and see all of these Sherman variants. Love it!
Ian.
Thanks Ian, I hear you! What I like about this group of Shermans is that they were varied marks, some old, some newer and everything in between, but, they were all upgraded by the February 1945 directive that makes them kinda resemble each other yet, each still has it's individual character and personalities!
Bob
Hey Bob, you have grabbed my interest with 'they were all upgraded by the February 1945 directive ...I have to have some more info now. Being a German armor guy mainly, I had not heard of that. Can you elaborate please?
Ian.
Thanks Ian,
I read up on this several years ago and i am probably a bit rusty on details. In February, 1945, the Fourth Armored Division issued a directive to all units that a "kit" had been developed to up armor and up gun all M-4 Sherman tanks in the division in the field. The armor involved was of a specific size and shape cut from destroyed Welded hull Shermans and German Panther tank glacis plates and side hull armor. These fabricated plates were welded to the glacis plates of the Shermans and an added sheet of armor bolted to the transmission covers below. Another plate was welded to each side of the hulls with a 2 inch space provided between the add on armor and the hull sides. Two three piece armor sheets were also welded to the turret sides.
As to armament, all main guns were upgraded to 76 mm that weren't as yet. The mantlet .30 cal.machine guns were upgraded to .50 cal., the .50 cal. turret machine guns were moved to the rear of the gunner's hatch, and a new .30 cal. machine gun was mounted on the top of the commander's periscope cover. Back then I looked into how they utilized this program with the cast hull M4A1s. I found a photo of an M4A1 that used the same "kit" but where the flat add-on glacis plate armor attached, steel rods were used at the two top corners to attach it to the hull.
General Patton most likely had something to do with this directive as he hated the sand bag armor used by so many Sherman crews. Later, Omar Bradley visited Fourth Armored Division in the field, was so impressed with the up gunning and up armoring, that he recommended it to some of the armored divisions in northern Europe. No idea to what extent they were used there?
About 8 Years ago, Dragon models released Colonel Creighton Abrams, "Thunderbolt Seven' M4A3E8 with the upgraded armor and armaments. It was a great kit, the only flaw was the side hull armor extended from the hull to the edges of the sheet metal side fenders. They have to be sanded down considerably as they only extended half way to the edges.
Hope this help Ian!
Bob
Logistics, The armor Updated May 24th, 2017.
Can you maybe take a picture of the armor you are talking about I have this kit and really want to do it proud.
Logistics, The armor Updated May 24th, 2017.
Hey Dave, you're in luck! The "appliqué" armor I mentioned comes with the kit! It is all inclusive with only one major flaw, and it is a doozie. First, here is a pic of the Box art.
Note on the "appliqué" on the side of the hull, (With "Thunderbolt Seven" written across a cloud image), painted on it, the armor extends halfway from hull to the sheet metal fenders. When you add them in the kit, they are "flush" with the fenders. They must be sanded down 50% to attain the proper width.
Here is a photo of one of the Shermans that I had to fabricate the appliqué armor. I only used two of the Dragon Kits you have, the other five I made with sheet styrene. You can see it here in white plastic. I also replaced the turret that came with this kit with the early T-23 turret in resin.
Then, here is the kit you have with the add-on armor included. Because it has been painted, a little difficult to see, and I have sanded down the side hull add-on armor as you can see.
Photos of "Thunderbolt Seven are rare, even though the actual tank is on display at West Point Military Academy, the add-on armor has been removed. In this photo of Abram's actual tank in the field, you can see by looking closely the width of the side hull add-on armor only extends half way from the hull to the edge of the fender..
The kit you have even has the additional machine guns and the 76 mm main gun with muzzle brake.
Hope this helps Dave!
Bob
Hey Dave, you're in luck! The "appliqué" armor I mentioned comes with the kit! It is all inclusive with only one major flaw, and it is a doozie. First, here is a pic of the Box art.
Note on the "appliqué" on the side of the hull, (With "Thunderbolt Seven" written across a cloud image), painted on it, the armor extends halfway from hull to the sheet metal fenders. When you add them in the kit, they are "flush" with the fenders. They must be sanded down 50% to attain the proper width.
Here is a photo of one of the Shermans that I had to fabricate the appliqué armor. I only used two of the Dragon Kits you have, the other five I made with sheet styrene. You can see it here in white plastic. I also replaced the turret that came with this kit with the early T-23 turret in resin.
Then, here is the kit you have with the add-on armor included. Because it has been painted, a little difficult to see, and I have sanded down the side hull add-on armor as you can see.
Photos of "Thunderbolt Seven are rare, even though the actual tank is on display at West Point Military Academy, the add-on armor has been removed. In this photo of Abram's actual tank in the field, you can see by looking closely the width of the side hull add-on armor only extends half way from the hull to the edge of the fender..
The kit you have even has the additional machine guns and the 76 mm main gun with muzzle brake.
Hope this helps Dave!
Bob
mike walsh
Master at Arms
Logistics, The armor Updated May 24th, 2017.
Wow Bob, I have not seen so many shermans and crew built up together as comprehensive as your diorama Bob, Well done
I am inspired with seeing all the well built shermans together with crews to follow suit and build a sherman diorama in the not too distant future.
Michael
Wow Bob, I have not seen so many shermans and crew built up together as comprehensive as your diorama Bob, Well done
I am inspired with seeing all the well built shermans together with crews to follow suit and build a sherman diorama in the not too distant future.
Another update, I'm rolling right along with these Shermans. I want to finish the first three which have been painted, (Base Coat), for a long time and can take the Rectified Turpentine wash with no concern about losing paint.
I began with the M4A1 76mm. I used my old school raw umber artist's oil and rectified turpentine wash. If this is done correctly, and washes are notoriously applied incorrectly, it will do much of the weathering for you. As you remove the wash by blotting, not rubbing, if you pay attention, you can remove it in places you want it removed and can save you a lot of work dry brushing later!
This is the M4Ai 76mm, completely washed and blotted, next to a base coat only M4A3E8. It dried overnight to a nice totally flat finish. I broke off several pieces including the left side turret add on armor. That always happens and will be reattached later.
Then I switched the two for a closer look.
[
Then, here are both with wash completed.
Next, all three washed and after drying, ready to begin further weathering!
Another angle.
I'll let them dry for 24 hours while I prepare the tracks, (Building, painting and rusting), and maybe start preparing all the figures that will be on them.
To be continued!
Michael
