German Tank Tracks

[jknaus]

One of my pet peeves is the modelling of German Tank Tracks and adding rust to them. I've mentioned this before, but having watched the newest Night Shift you tube video I commented there and figured I mention it here again also.
German track was made of highly rust resistant steel.
From Google. "German WWII tank tracks were primarily made from high-manganese steel alloy for durability and wear resistance, though early tracks might have used other alloys or even been made of magnesium-heavy alloy. This high-manganese steel contained corrosion-inhibiting elements that prevented the rapid, bright red rusting seen on simpler iron, instead wearing to a dull, dark brown or goldy-brown surface."
James

 

[Heavens Eagle]

I always do the bare steel surfaces on the track links where there would be wear from the road wheels and other parts doing constant wear. Then the rest is just dirt, mud, and dust on them with paint that hasn't worn off. You never see that much rust on the old WWII vehicles anyway. There was moisture and mud, but no salt. The salt that is used on roads is what causes fast rust and anything that was in Africa would definitely NOT have any rust on it over the period of years the DAK was in Africa.

 

[moon puppy]

Only thing I know about german tracks is what I learned here. And it was probably from you James.

 

[Rhino]

There was a 1/35 Panzer IV in one of the last IPMS Journals I received with rust-encrusted tracks, as if it had been parked in sea water for YEARS. It looked just like hammered dogshit. The modeler also added a basket of fruit and bread that looked fairly fresh. Would the bread and fruit not rot away while this poor ol' Panzer languished in it encrustation? This poorly thought out over-weathered vehicle won a gold award at local show. Madness!

 

[moon puppy]

This poorly thought out over-weathered vehicle won a gold award at local show.

Club dues must have been paid up.

 

[Rhino]

Club dues must have been paid up.

Too bloody right, mate!

 

[Brokeneagle]

Agreed James, they will rust eventually but combat ready in WW2 no. I think if you are modelling a knockout sitting in salt water that may be an exception like the German vehicles knocked out on the beaches in the Baltic during the retreat in 1945.
The modern Russian vehicles are the same. Only rusty if they have burned or are in a scrap yard.

 

[PaintItBlack]

One of my pet peeves is the modelling of German Tank Tracks and adding rust to them. I've mentioned this before, but having watched the newest Night Shift you tube video I commented there and figured I mention it here again also.
German track was made of highly rust resistant steel.
From Google. "German WWII tank tracks were primarily made from high-manganese steel alloy for durability and wear resistance, though early tracks might have used other alloys or even been made of magnesium-heavy alloy. This high-manganese steel contained corrosion-inhibiting elements that prevented the rapid, bright red rusting seen on simpler iron, instead wearing to a dull, dark brown or goldy-brown surface."
James

Only partially true. Tracks, early in the war, were composed mainly of manganese (along with nickel and chromium), and were highly resistant to rusting. However, as the war progressed, supply lines were stretched and other alloys were used to meet need. The composition of steel could also vary in different factories, at different times. This was especially true during 1943-44, when tank production was at its height and manganese supply was inconsistent. This meant steel composition could vary batch to batch. Manganese was still present, just not in the volumes used early in the war (despite manganese being supplemented by Sweden via its Baltic ports, for most of the war). So, yes, some German vehicles had tracks that showed more prominent signs of rusting. Admittedly, though, while rust could be seen on these German vehicles, it is no where near as prevalent as our scale models would suggest. For that matter, the alloy content in German Steel gave it a gray-brown or bronze colour and the silver steel tones used to model wear from contact with the ground, are also inaccurate. Modelling has become highly stylized though, and much of what we consider normal these days, has no basis in reality so, why sweat the details? Ultimately, your model, do it your way!

Sorry for the late response, I just joined the group!

 

[moon puppy]

Sorry for the late response, I just joined the group!

Welcome aboard then. How about an introduction post?

 

[Heavens Eagle]

Only partially true. Tracks, early in the war, were composed mainly of manganese (along with nickel and chromium), and were highly resistant to rusting. However, as the war progressed, supply lines were stretched and other alloys were used to meet need. The composition of steel could also vary in different factories, at different times. This was especially true during 1943-44, when tank production was at its height and manganese supply was inconsistent. This meant steel composition could vary batch to batch. Manganese was still present, just not in the volumes used early in the war (despite manganese being supplemented by Sweden via its Baltic ports, for most of the war). So, yes, some German vehicles had tracks that showed more prominent signs of rusting. Admittedly, though, while rust could be seen on these German vehicles, it is no where near as prevalent as our scale models would suggest. For that matter, the alloy content in German Steel gave it a gray-brown or bronze colour and the silver steel tones used to model wear from contact with the ground, are also inaccurate. Modelling has become highly stylized though, and much of what we consider normal these days, has no basis in reality so, why sweat the details? Ultimately, your model, do it your way!

Sorry for the late response, I just joined the group!

You mentioned that the painted color (that I tend to use) of silver or steel is incorrect. What would you suggest. I tend to use the brownish track color that Humbrol has put out, and dirt on the tracks, but have used a steel color semi-dry brushed on in the wear areas that the bogies and other wheels make contact.

Also, welcome to the forum! These are the kinds of posts that we like and share on here and criticism as long as it is constructive and helpful is one of the main plusses of being a part of the forum.

 

[PaintItBlack]

You mentioned that the painted color (that I tend to use) of silver or steel is incorrect. What would you suggest. I tend to use the brownish track color that Humbrol has put out, and dirt on the tracks, but have used a steel color semi-dry brushed on in the wear areas that the bogies and other wheels make contact.

Also, welcome to the forum! These are the kinds of posts that we like and share on here and criticism as long as it is constructive and helpful is one of the main plusses of being a part of the forum.

My main point is, your model, your choice Most of it is covered in dirt, mud and dust, anyways. If you want to show exposed track then a brownish-gray colour (not a rusty brown, in other words), would be historically more accurate. The picsI have attached are what I refer to but you can do a search. Youll notice how suttle weathering can be on the tracks. I am always experimenting though, with different colours and effects so, my models don't all look the same and,admittedly, I can get carried away at times, lol.

Thanks for the welcome!

 

[moon puppy]

Take note how those chevron things on the track links are not worn consistent, the outer ones are more visible, inner are worn...if it were a tire I'd say there's an alignment issue!

 

[jknaus]

My main point is, your model, your choice Most of it is covered in dirt, mud and dust, anyways. If you want to show exposed track then a brownish-gray colour (not a rusty brown, in other words), would be historically more accurate. The picsI have attached are what I refer to but you can do a search. Youll notice how suttle weathering can be on the tracks. I am always experimenting though, with different colours and effects so, my models don't all look the same and,admittedly, I can get carried away at times, lol.

Thanks for the welcome!

I use Vallejo track colour 70.304 which looks the most authentic to my eyes. I have used shiny steel to wear them, but that sounds like it isnt quite right. Will have to experiment. My biggest gripe is the Spanish Method of painting with all the chips and rust. I've crawled all over the WWII tanks in CFB Borden and there is very little rust, even from sitting outside for so many years. But as you said, each to their own. It is a hobby to be enjoyed.
James

 

[Heavens Eagle]

No salt equals no rust. The rust that most folks see on vehicles is caused by salt on roads to melt snow and such. That was never used during WWII. Vehicles in North Africa didn't get rusty at all. Scratched, dented, dusty, and dirty, but no rust. The other part is that most vehicles were not around long enough to get much more than a little surface rust in a scratch or chip if they were in a humid or wet theater of war. Yeah some areas would get tons of mud caught up in the drive train with the worst being in the Eastern front in Russia.