Bismarck - Doing the Sea

[White_Wolf]

You're more than welcome Laurence,

Regardless of how much talent we may have, the outcome of any project is always vague until it is completed. There are many modelers with more artistic ability than I'll ever have. Lewis Pruneau and Mig Jimenez come to mind. However, to create things that are attractive and realistic, some artistic ability must come into play. Most people with sufficient concentration, dedication, time and effort can build a precise and beautiful scale model. I have always referred to that as technical modeling. Of course, some are far better than others but in my opinion, in that case, it comes down to a matter of persistence and determination. Whoever works the hardest and longest prevails. Back in the early days of IPMS, weathering, (Which is strictly an artistic process), was frowned upon. The organization was then comprised of mostly technical modelers who were amazing in their own right but after painting a base coat, their capabilities ended. I remember many times trying to persuade a couple of them to leave the model unpainted as you could see all the brass, metal and various parts of colors other than that of the original kit. I saw too many fantastic models diminished with attempted weathering by an incredible but otherwise, unartistic modeler. It was sad.

Art is different. Over all these years I have been doing this, occasionally, a very artistic guy comes on the scene like Mig or Lewis and out of nowhere, blow us away with an incredible work of art. And, sometimes, It is their very first model or diorama. Way back in the 1980s, I went to a convention in Texas. I think it was Dallas. There I saw a Junkers Ju 87 Sturzkampflukzeug, or Stuka for short. I sometimes like ugly machines, and the Stuka is about as ugly as they come, but, this one was an amazing work of art. It had a winter paint job from the Russian front and it struck me as the most beautiful model plane I had ever seen. I located the very young builder, Gordon Stronach, a Canadian living in Houston Texas. I hired him several months later and moved him to St. Louis where he worked for VLS for several years as an in-house pattern maker.. In all my years in the hobby, Gordon was one of the most artistic modelers I ever encountered. He later went on to found all those "Planet" model websites.

Anyway, I digressed. My point being that artistic talent does play a part in modeling, and I have seen the artist in your work as well as others on this website. The Bismarck was sunk in 15,000 feet of water, 600 miles west of Brest, France in the mid Atlantic. Much of the Bismarck's eight month's in service was spent in the North Atlantic as I'm sure you know. So, even a winter in the North Atlantic would be accurate I believe.

Thanks Bob, that is an epic post - I really appreciate the points you are making and the history too.

Winter in the Atlantic - I like that.

Laurence

 

[White_Wolf]

For we sailors about I can say that the bow wave is looking quite authentic. There are some things that changes it shape. Of course the speed at which the ship is traveling, the depth at which the ship is and the sea state. I have been in the North Atlantic in September and I can attest it is far from a smooth ride but then I have seen it smooth as glass. If the ship is sailing in a straight course the bow and midships wake will be equal on both sides. Search out some pics of a ship turning then you can get some idea how the wake reacts.

Thanks for that Paul, appreciate it. The thing with this diorama is that I had to keep dimensions under control, I did not have a lot of real estate around the ship to make it obvious if the ship was sailing straight or turning. 3 massive props and full speed in a choppy sea tend to create a spectacular wake. I'll see what I can do to show that as artistically as I can.

Laurence

 

[Piet]

 

[bob letterman]

Laurence, I was looking at some research I did many years ago when I built the modified Flower Class Corvette sub chaser in "Cocoon". . That was before I decided to put it in dry dock. I was originally going to put it in water, but changed my mind when I travelled to Newcastle and the township of Leeds where the big shipyards were still standing near the northeast corner of England on The North Sea.

They are in full color and show the ship in the North Atlantic winter. Lots of Drama! This is how I remember those three weeks crossing the Atlantic in a troop ship!

You can see the rough waves in the background!

I thought you may be able to get a few ideas from these. I had forgotten I had these.

Bob

 

[moon puppy]

WOW!

 

[White_Wolf]

Laurence, I was looking at some research I did many years ago when I built the modified Flower Class Corvette sub chaser in "Cocoon". . That was before I decided to put it in dry dock. I was originally going to put it in water, but changed my mind when I travelled to Newcastle and the township of Leeds where the big shipyards were still standing near the northeast corner of England on The North Sea.

View attachment 139744

They are in full color and show the ship in the North Atlantic winter. Lots of Drama! This is how I remember those three weeks crossing the Atlantic in a troop ship!

View attachment 139745

You can see the rough waves in the background!

View attachment 139746

I thought you may be able to get a few ideas from these. I had forgotten I had these.

Bob

Thanks for that Bob, these are always helpful. I have always been tempted to do a corvette in rough Atlantic seas, but I got to do the Bismarck instead. Maybe in the future, who knows ...

Shaping the water is what I am working on at the moment, slowly, very slowly.

This is what it looks like at the moment ... no sun, overcast, rainy and wet, clay doesn't dry for days on end.
The portion from the edge to where the shape of the bow is, was covered a few days ago with the next layer, looks closer to where I want it to be. To the left you see the white "mounds" of clay, those are dry, to the right the same idea, but not dry yet. I am working on both sides at the same time, can't have them look identical but they can't look vastly different either. Those mounds will be joined when I lay the next layer of clay, then it will be one or two more, but mostly wave crests and "intersections of waves" with water splashing up in the air, all within reason, of course.

Can't have it all done in one go, it will take forever to dry, as opposed to a little bit less forever if you wish, in the absence of decent weather. More photos coming as soon as I have something done ... right now it's a bit frustrating ...

Thanks for watching,

Laurence

 

[MrT]

Looking good!

 

[bob letterman]

Laurence,

I wasn't suggesting you do a Corvette, although that isn't a bad idea after you finish the Birmarcj, I posted those to give you ideas of the Bismarck in rough water. I thought the Corvette diorama has a lot of drama because of the way the bulilder sculpted the water. The photography was also very special and realistic!, He found a great background photo, matched the color of the water exactly and made it appear it was actually a ship in the ocean. The only way you can tell it's not real at first glance is by the rigging and the oversized railing as he obviously built the kit straight OOB.

Bob

 

[White_Wolf]

Laurence,

I wasn't suggesting you do a Corvette, although that isn't a bad idea after you finish the Birmarcj, I posted those to give you ideas of the Bismarck in rough water. I thought the Corvette diorama has a lot of drama because of the way the bulilder sculpted the water. The photography was also very special and realistic!, He found a great background photo, matched the color of the water exactly and made it appear it was actually a ship in the ocean. The only way you can tell it's not real at first glance is by the rigging and the oversized railing as he obviously built the kit straight OOB.

Bob

Of course, my apologies for not being very specific.

The water has been on my mind for a long time, waves, shapes, all of it. I have been watching videos on youtube on others making dioramas showing water of all kinds, from oceans to waterfalls, lakes, puddles, rivers, you name it. Materials from resin, UV resin, toilet paper, paper mache stuff, modeling clay, you name it. Obsession is one way of putting it.

On the model alone, yes, agree, the rigging and the rails seem to be a little bit of a problem, otherwise the photos are great.

I hope that my rigging and railing look decent. Need to take more photos ....

Thanks,

Laurence

 

[jknaus]

WOW just WOW Looking so cool. That rigging looks fantastic.
James

 

[bob letterman]

Laurence,

Your rigging looks great. The rigging on the Corvette has stretched and is hanging loose.

Bob

 

[moon puppy]

Agreed, think you have the rigging scaled better Laurence.

 

[Iron Mike]

Excellent!

 

[White_Wolf]

Right, more stuff done. Lay the clay (sounds like a bad rap tune) next day take it outside on the balcony, hoping for that yellow thing in the sky to cast some rays and dry the thing ... takes a loooooooooooooooong time.

Ship still not attached to the base - just modelling the waves in close proximity.

Photos came out a bit blurry, apologies for that.

Thanks for watching and for the compliments, really appreciate it.

Laurence

 

[Iron Mike]

It might be taking some time, but it's well worth it.

I thought the first photo was the real thing at first glance.

 

[moon puppy]

I thought the first photo was the real thing at first glance.

Same here. Outstanding!

 

[Rhino]

I know this is a much smaller scale, and Scharnhorst, rather than Bismarck. The technique may not be relevant to your build.
When I started thinking about the dynamic nature of a ship moving on the ever-changing sea in the wind, this video gave me some inspiration for my own dinky ocean bases. You Bismarck is truly stunning!

 

[White_Wolf]

Thank you gents, appreciate it. I watched that video a while back, that works for the Pacific ocean and for a small scale. I get some inspiration from everything I watch and I appreciate seeing that video again.

I actually started painting the base. Still have some issues around the edges that need fixing. Celluclay shrinks something horrible, have a few gaps to fill now, but that should be easy. Anyway, back to the painting bit... first off I laid something called Gesso paste. Water soluble, it's like a primer for canvases if you wish. Nice and easy to apply, wide flat brush. I let it dry for a day. The thing I discovered was that it is something that oils don't adhere to very nicely (stupid), nothing Vallejo primer can't fix. So, this is a section in front of the bow with Gesso, German grey primer (airbrushed) and oils, Payne's Grey and Titanium white.

Taken on my phone, not a very good one.

Same thing from a different angle. Waves are "going" towards the ship. Masking tape on the edge of the base. More coming soon I hope.

Thanks for watching,

Laurence

 

[Iron Mike]

I'd be happy with that. Looks very convincing, Laurence!

 

[White_Wolf]

I'd be happy with that. Looks very convincing, Laurence!

Thanks Mike, but that is far from done ....

Laurence