german grey/panzer grey is there really a diff?

[kryptosdaddy]

Alot of conflicting info on the web with these two. maybe I need to get a paint chart...

 

[AndyFettes]

What paints are you referring too ?

 

[Sharkmouth]

Chip,

If you value accuracy, leave the Web alone. It is full of armchair experts who toss out their opinions as facts without citing references. Some will cite out dated references so they are to be forgiven for handing out poor information.

As an American, I never heard of an American Gray. Nor have I heard of a British Grey (note spelling difference). So why would the German's have a Grau named after them?

Whereas the United States use several paint color identification systems, now a Federal Standard (FS #), the Europeans used different systems such as the Methuen Color System.

When it comes to military colors, the US used ANA colors and the Germans had their own sets based on the users. For example, their Air Force used RLM colors while the Army used RAL colors.

The fact that you used Panzer makes me think you may refer to an external color. If WWII, this would be RAL 7021 Panzergrau. Many are unaware that RAL 7021 is a match for RLM66 SchwarzGrau. This helps when buying model paints.

Here is a list of RAL colors and more information can be found on David Byrden's Panzer Colors page:
External
RAL 7021 = Panzer Gray

RAL 8002 = Signalbraun (prewar)

RAL 7016 = Anthracitgrau/Anthracite Gray

RAL 8000 = Grunbraun/Green Brown (North Africa)

RAL 7008 (North Africa)

RAL 6003 = Olivgrun/Olive Green (late war)

RAL 8017 = Schokoladebraun/Chocolate Brown (late war)

RAL 8020 = tan yellow (for North Africa)

RAL 7027 = sand gray (for North Africa)

Internal
RAL 8012 = red primer

RAL 7009 = gray-green

RAL 1001 = ivory

I hope this helps...

 

[Bagge]

Great info Saul! must print that one out and put in my folder
//Mats

 

[kryptosdaddy]

Thanks alot Saul!

Andy I was refering to Tamiya's German grey, just seemed funny as Saul points out, there would be a color named after a country!

and that link... there is a picture of Panzer Grey as shown on a tank- thats close to my german grey, but i see some dark metallic in that hue.

 

[Sharkmouth]

Great info Saul! must print that one out and put in my folder
//Mats

Mats,

Print out the page in the link, that is where the great information is. I simply wanted to point out that the colors have actual names which should be used. As for the actual hue, shade, tint, and finish, I will leave that for others to argue. Simply put, without even discussing the changes needed for scale modeling, there are far too many variables as to what the proper color should be for a given name.

While factories standardized a finish, units were given the ability to add secondary and tertiary colors. These came in the form of a paste that must be diluted. Therefore the final appearance can vary widely based on percentage of dilution, agent of dilution, and method of application.

When I read that someone matched a color to a helmet, I want to know if the helmet was painted at a factory or in the field. Hard to tell when the owner isn't around...

Regards,

 

[kryptosdaddy]

I was at my local today and Model Master does carry most of these RAL colors- some may not be surprised but I'm posting for those like ME that are not that familiar! lol No wonder I'm going broke! Damn chemicals...lol :vmad

 

[kryptosdaddy]

And this...'When I read that someone matched a color to a helmet, I want to know if the helmet was painted at a factory or in the field. Hard to tell when the owner isn't around..."

Most of the stahlhelm I have seen had a green hue- I saw one grey helm that was badly chipped and the steel seemed bluish like gun metal, so what is the right color?

I have seen these in museums and in private collections and some of the individual items looked to me to be a bit less polished, more authentic. But, as it has been pointed out ^^, Who really knows what hue is correct?

 

[moon puppy]

I wouldn't worry about paint chips, Chip. Think about it, would the paint on your truck match the factory paint chip when it was new, would it have when it was sitting on the lot brand new? By the time we weather it, wash it, filter it, dry brush it and seal coat it. it's so far removed from the original color that it would never match.

 

[Cheyenne]

Here's my grey color chart ............

Panzer Grey

Early Panzer Grey

A little bit later Panzer Grey

Panzer Grey just before that yellowish color that replaced grey

N.A.T.O. Grey

S.E.A.T.O. Grey

French Grey

Belgian Grey

Austrian Grey

British Grey

U.S. Grey

Canadian Grey

Japanese Gray

Glenn Grey , ...... my own mix of Tamiya Grey and Life Color Grey

A portrait of Dorian Grey

Lorraine Grey [ Chief Brodies wife in Jaws }

 

[Bagge]

but the second grey looks a little to dark i think.... :hmmm
//Mats

 

[Sharkmouth]

but the second grey looks a little to dark i think....

Mats,

In the second color chip posted, we see what I meant by variables. In the first example, black is added to the white while the reverse is true of the second. Even with exact measurements and proper ratios, the eye fools one into seeing differences not there chromatically...

Regards,

 

[kryptosdaddy]

I wouldn't worry about paint chips, Chip. Think about it, would the paint on your truck match the factory paint chip when it was new, would it have when it was sitting on the lot brand new? By the time we weather it, wash it, filter it, dry brush it and seal coat it. it's so far removed from the original color that it would never match.

True, I have a 96 Ranger thats silver/grey almost gunmetal- I know its faded over time. I'll just paint those damn Germans Air Mobility Com, Grey and be done! lol

 

[Iron Mike]

I would suggest you read this
https://www.modelersalliance.com/list-of-the-masters/83-sven-frisch/149-panzergrey-anybody
If all else fails, check Cheyenne's chart.

 

[moon puppy]

but the second grey looks a little to dark i think.... :hmmm
//Mats

Scroll it back down the screen and it'll lighten up again..

This is a prime example why a computer monitor is not good for matching paint.

 

[moon puppy]

I would suggest you read this
https://www.modelersalliance.com/list-of-the-masters/83-sven-frisch/149-panzergrey-anybody
If all else fails, check Cheyenne's chart.

That is a great article.

 

[phantom II]

Myself, I'm wondering why the Japanese are the only ones capable of spelling the word Gray correctly ?

Christian

 

[kryptosdaddy]

I'm not Japanese Chris!

 

[reconron]

And this...'When I read that someone matched a color to a helmet, I want to know if the helmet was painted at a factory or in the field. Hard to tell when the owner isn't around..."

Most of the stahlhelm I have seen had a green hue- I saw one grey helm that was badly chipped and the steel seemed bluish like gun metal, so what is the right color?

I have seen these in museums and in private collections and some of the individual items looked to me to be a bit less polished, more authentic. But, as it has been pointed out ^^, Who really knows what hue is correct?

Here is some reference for you,CR. :http://www.vetbringback.com/german-helmets.html

Greetings,Ron.

 

[kryptosdaddy]

POP this up again, this is the color I am trying to find- is this Schwartzgrau?

See alot of vehicles painted this color, to me this is a blue/grey