WEATHER FORCAST.....COMMENTARY

[paddy]

Personally i think people are far more influenced by museum quality examples and walkrounds than over weathering or new weathering products and supplies. I dont think people really appreciate quite what aircraft in England had to endure with winter weather and 7 day week operations. Fighters often operated from forward airfields which were basically fields or local flying clubs nearer the Channel coast than the sector airfields with facilities. These forward airstrips would be grass and no covered areas.
Pierre Clostermann in his book "The Big Show" refers to Typhoons stuck in mud and tipping up on their props while taxiing with mud deeper than the wheel dia. Moving once or twice a week to Airfields little more then open fields and having to dodge cows on arrival as the front line moved so fast as Germans retreated across Europe.

OK the last ones a bit of fun but you get the idea

Plenty of room for weathering and within reason you cant really over weather IMHO

 

[Arturius]

Paddy, I think the question that Terry mention about, isn't about weathering the models and more to the fact "well aren't use to much weathering products in our models and they all look the same?"

To a more realistic approach, they weathering it's necessary. Like we say here in Brasil "don't look like a Toy."

Returning to the original question, yes! I think the modelers are been affected by the models magazines and manufacturing companies. And everthing it's look the same. The people are forgetting that sometimes less is more.

Cheers

Art

 

[Tankbuilder]

Shalom.

To me weathering is another area where what goes and is acceptable is up to the individual modeller. I read a book, on the WW2 North African Campaign, written bu a British tank commander. In it he wrote that tanks and EVERYTHING on them often looked to be a dull white due to the vast amounts of extremely fine whitish dust that covered everything.

Some people use extreme weathering because it's a challenge for them. Others, purists perhaps, only model the amount of weathering a real vehicle was likely to have. Yet other builders like to model a vehicle so that it looks like it has been abandoned for many years. Then there are others who want a factory fresh, showroom condition, or a museum vehicle finish on their tanks.

I must agree with you though that lately the trend in weathering armour seems to be drifting to the extreme weathering end of things. Whatever floats your boat is good unless you are trying to create an accurate representation of a vehicle for a contest entry. Then it is best to have photgraphic proof that the slight weathering on your entry is in accordance to the weathering on actual vehicles at that time. Otherwise judges who are caught up in this over weathering craze are quite liable to pan your work.

Cheers

 

[Tankbuilder]

Shalom.

Something to bear in mind when weathering a vehicle. The old adage about tanks, any many other AFVs is that the don't so much go over the ground as they go THROUGH the ground. A 40 ton or 60 ton tank in pristine condition can get covered in crud in only five to ten minutes of cross country travel. Depending on the terrain and the weather itself this crud can become quite thick. Extreme weathering can be used to good effect jut to show the sometimes appalling conditions under which AFVs often operated.Very slight weathering and unfaded uniforms can be used to show a newly arrived vehicle znd/or crew in country. Placing weathered faded uniformed figures with unweathered unfaded uniforms can be a very subtle way to show new replacements.

SSgt. Barry Sadler did a song, "THE GARRET TROOPER" in which he describes a trooper talking about having just this minute come back from a fifteen day running fight against the Cong. The narrator asks, "Know what I saw when I looked down? Spit shined boots! yep, he's a trooper, a garret trooper."

Today there are al sorts of weathering supplies and aftermarket supplies for the modeller to experiment with. As inmany endeavours sometimes there is an over abundance of a good thing used.

Cheers

 

[Arturius]

I agree with everthing that you say. And for that point we clearly can see that "heavy weathering" isso the actual trend. And I really think that judges of the contests are been "influenced" for the weathering trends....

 

[JSteinman]

Gonna drag this one back up again...

I have to agree and disagree. Chipping, probably over done on most cases, rusting yes and no, depends on the theater of operation and intensity of combat on that one, as to heavy weathering - no I totally disagree, not over done in the least. All it takes is for one run across an open field only slightly sodden and mud is EVERY where. Rain streaks, dust accumulation, oil spills, all part of the process.

I am not saying you MUST add all these things, but I think you can comfortably. :snoopy

 

[Tankbuilder]

Gonna drag this one back up again...

I have to agree and disagree. Chipping, probably over done on most cases, rusting yes and no, depends on the theater of operation and intensity of combat on that one, as to heavy weathering - no I totally disagree, not over done in the least. All it takes is for one run across an open field only slightly sodden and mud is EVERY where. Rain streaks, dust accumulation, oil spills, all part of the process.

I am not saying you MUST add all these things, but I think you can comfortably. :snoopy

Shalom.

I remember being told that armour doesn't move over terrain it moves through terrain. You're right in that it doesn't take to long for armour to get really dirty in the field let alone whilst it is in combat action.

Some people do wather their models so heavily that the model would be a better representation of a scrap heap vehicle than one still in use. ;<)

Cheers
Cheers

 

[JSteinman]

So much for the rust debate...

 

[MrT]

The discussion was never about weathering or not to weather. For every picture you can find of a rusted out, mud covered, and chipped tank I can find just as many that don't look like even in the field. The question is does heavy weathering make a better model and are we being manipulated into thinking so by the latest on rush of new products and the many articles promoting them. I compete(I know in some quarters that borders on some kind inherent unfairness) so I want to know if I need to make models that come from a salvage yard in order to compete. I want to know what the modelers here think since most judges are made up of modelers. I want to know if we can see past the products, the hype and appreciate the art. So what we're talking about is perception not style.

B)

 

[JSteinman]

The discussion was never about weathering or not to weather. For every picture you can find of a rusted out, mud covered, and chipped tank I can find just as many that don't look like even in the field. The question is does heavy weathering make a better model and are we being manipulated into thinking so by the latest on rush of new products and the many articles promoting them. I compete(I know in some quarters that borders on some kind inherent unfairness) so I want to know if I need to make models that come from a salvage yard in order to compete. I want to know what the modelers here think since most judges are made up of modelers. I want to know if we can see past the products, the hype and appreciate the art. So what we're talking about is perception not style.

B)

Ahh, yep. I was just giving you what you asked for, my opinion. I will attempt to be more clear. I for one do not feel manipulated, nor do I feel like a manipulator.

From a contest stand point I never judge what isn't there. So if you chose to heavily weather, then I will give my opinion on how I feel that was carried out. If you make a parade ground finish, I am going to judge how you accomplished that. But I am one guy - lots more people need to chime in here, or like local mid term elections, if you don't vote you get what you get!

 

[Tankbuilder]

The discussion was never about weathering or not to weather. For every picture you can find of a rusted out, mud covered, and chipped tank I can find just as many that don't look like even in the field. The question is does heavy weathering make a better model and are we being manipulated into thinking so by the latest on rush of new products and the many articles promoting them. I compete(I know in some quarters that borders on some kind inherent unfairness) so I want to know if I need to make models that come from a salvage yard in order to compete. I want to know what the modelers here think since most judges are made up of modelers. I want to know if we can see past the products, the hype and appreciate the art. So what we're talking about is perception not style.

B)

Shalom.

I think that extensive weathering on a contest entry should be treated by the builder as though it were a representativ model that has a unique or rare item or look - bring documentation (images) of the actual vehicle you've used as your source. That way you stand perhaps a reasonable chance with the judges. I can't tell you how many times I've heard a judge say, "I've never seen an image of that or of this and thus it must be wrong." Document, document, DOCUMENT your sources for contest entries and be sure to bring that info with you.

Cheers

 

[JSteinman]

The discussion was never about weathering or not to weather. For every picture you can find of a rusted out, mud covered, and chipped tank I can find just as many that don't look like even in the field. The question is does heavy weathering make a better model and are we being manipulated into thinking so by the latest on rush of new products and the many articles promoting them. I compete(I know in some quarters that borders on some kind inherent unfairness) so I want to know if I need to make models that come from a salvage yard in order to compete. I want to know what the modelers here think since most judges are made up of modelers. I want to know if we can see past the products, the hype and appreciate the art. So what we're talking about is perception not style.

B)

Shalom.

I think that extensive weathering on a contest entry should be treated by the builder as though it were a representativ model that has a unique or rare item or look - bring documentation (images) of the actual vehicle you've used as your source. That way you stand perhaps a reasonable chance with the judges. I can't tell you how many times I've heard a judge say, "I've never seen an image of that or of this and thus it must be wrong." Document, document, DOCUMENT your sources for contest entries and be sure to bring that info with you.

Cheers

I think those judges should be fired unless they are the all knowing Wizard of Oz. I have seen those type, and I believe they still live in their mother's basements. Judge what is before you on how well it was carried out, period.

 

[fightnjoe]

speaking as one who has not entered a contest i can tell you that yes i feel influenced.

the reason.

when i pop into a forum and i see builders doing (insert whatever recent trend you wish) i want to mimic it. how did they do it? what did they use to achieve it? if it is in the relm of what i can afford then i go out and supply myself with whatever the medium is.

it is logical that contest judges could be influenced by whatever the current trend is or even whatever is popular in their local clubs. they are human. they can be influenced. now not every person that judges a contest will but the potential for influence is still there. all builders have preconcieved notion of what makes a good model.

with all that being said i say again that yes it is logical that judges could be influenced by whatever the current or popular trend is. as modelers we are influenced by current trends. we may choose to indulge that trend or not, but we are influenced by it.


joe

 

[Duke Maddog]

The discussion was never about weathering or not to weather. For every picture you can find of a rusted out, mud covered, and chipped tank I can find just as many that don't look like even in the field. The question is does heavy weathering make a better model and are we being manipulated into thinking so by the latest on rush of new products and the many articles promoting them. I compete(I know in some quarters that borders on some kind inherent unfairness) so I want to know if I need to make models that come from a salvage yard in order to compete. I want to know what the modelers here think since most judges are made up of modelers. I want to know if we can see past the products, the hype and appreciate the art. So what we're talking about is perception not style.

B)

Shalom.

I think that extensive weathering on a contest entry should be treated by the builder as though it were a representativ model that has a unique or rare item or look - bring documentation (images) of the actual vehicle you've used as your source. That way you stand perhaps a reasonable chance with the judges. I can't tell you how many times I've heard a judge say, "I've never seen an image of that or of this and thus it must be wrong." Document, document, DOCUMENT your sources for contest entries and be sure to bring that info with you.

Cheers

I think those judges should be fired unless they are the all knowing Wizard of Oz. I have seen those type, and I believe they still live in their mother's basements. Judge what is before you on how well it was carried out, period.

I agree. I know of one judge who drove away one outstanding modeler from model clubs and contests because he built a model of his vehicle that he served in while stationed in Vietnam. He weathered it with red clay exactly how his vehicle used to look and he placed pictures of his vehicle next to the model to show his inspiration. One judge refused to allow him the first place he deserved because "There's nowhere on earth that has that color dirt." This was said despite being shown the pictures of the vehicle from Vietnam. That judge was wrong because he isn't supposed to judge the color of the dirt; just the technique used to apply it. Who knows how many other people have been discouraged from joining a model club because of this one know-it-all?

As for my own opinion on weathering; I am only partially influenced. I'll look at some of these trends and if they are simple, inexpensive and effective in making my model look realistically used; I'll give them a shot. If the technique is long, drawn out and complicated; or can only be reproduced with expensive powders and materials offered exclusively by companies, I'll pass. I don't like spending more time weathering a model than it took to build and paint it! I want that model done; I hate when a model sits on my workbench for more than a month or two. If I take it to contests and it is passed over because I didn't use the latest new weathering tools or I didn't weather it according to what is the current trend, then so be it. I don't go to contests for the awards anyway; I go to learn, and to enjoy the camaraderie of fellow modeling friends. Any award I might receive is simply cream; especially since I still consider myself a T-ball league player on a Big League playing field.