Messerschmitt Bf -109G10

[Dusan]

Hello ,


Right now I will start working on this model 1/48 Hasegawa Bf-109G10.

I really really like this kit, so I'll try to do this 109 "quickly" and with little additional detail, new decals and PE seatbelts only (maby some small details).

I am not a rivet counter at all but I wanted to compare these two kits, here are some comparative photos

Hasegawa vs Fujimi (last tool, K version also good for G10).

I have a small problem with decals, can not decide yet :hmmm

Thanks for looking!

All the best!
Dusan.

 

[Plastik Smurff]

It's amazing how company's get a different take on the same plane,but I'm like you bugger the amount of rivet's,just build it an enjoy it.

 

[jknaus]

If I remember correctly the Hasegawa version is better than the Fujimi. Definitely it is better than its 1/32 brother. Looking forward to this build. Not to sway you but yellow 7 from III Jg 300 while looking more visually interesting with the grafted nose is according to Jagdgescwader 300 Wild Sau vol 2 page 199 not quite right. This volume shows the rear fuse to be brown and green, not just green and a green 7 instead of yellow. Its also interesting because Jg 300 was made up bomber pilots chosen to fly single engine fighter in the night fighting role due to their blind instrument flying tickets. Most of Jg 300 301, 302 flew day missions though.

James

 

[phantom II]

Looks like an interesting project to me. Can't wait to see it.

Cheers , christian B)

 

[Gene]

Rivet counters? I thought they was outlawed?? :laugh: :laugh:

 

[moon puppy]

I like the idea of the Corrected 7 aircraft. Just for the spinner!

 

[Dusan]

Thank you guys for your interest! :drinks


Now I'm in trouble :huh: , last night I found photo of that famous 7 in "Luftwaffe In Detail-Air War Over the Czech Lands" book, very worn, their information on that Bf-109G10/R3 "7" that they found it on Kbely airfild: belonged to JG-51 fighter squadron (so band is Green-white-green) not light blue-white-light blue.
Also there is a problem with W.Nr. In this book W.Nr. is 613016 but on my decals is W.Nr. 150006 pure fiction, also they wrote (W.Nr. is unfortunately not visible with the exception of the last digit 6 and latest research indicates this may have been an erla built a/c). So obviously they did decals by this photo that i found (there is no visible W.Nr.), they also assumed that the ring around spinner was black or RLM70.

Sory James but I dont have that book. :S that can maby confirm W.Nr. I know that cammo is RLM 83/81/76 but now I am not sure at all about JG51 or 300.

I almost decided to do 8 with that fancy chevron.
I found some info about Alfred Seidi and his personal markings "small 8" and that he always flew aircrafts with that nummber, last weeks of the war he flew also Me-262.

:gogo Maybe I can do both kits at once, Hasegawa 8 and Fujimi 7 :huh:

All the best!
Dusan.

 

[Sharkmouth]

Dusan,

Please read the debate by some noted German researchers and make your own conclusion:
http://www.jg300.de/me109g-10erla.phtml

Regards,

 

[Panzerfaust]

Interesting comparison there, thanks for posting.

I'm looking forward to seeing more.

Cheers,

Jase.

 

[Dusan]

Saul Thanks but that link is broken, and also www.jg300.de not workong at all

BTW, I started working on 109, pictures soon.



All the best!
Dusan.

 

[moon puppy]

Dusan, it's working fine for me, other than not being able to read German.

 

[Sharkmouth]

Dusan, this research agrees with the Aeromaster sheet. From the aforementioned web site:

1/ Time of the snap.
The snap was made immediately after war - May 195 in Airfield Prague-Kbely, so it shows an original condition of the plane. But, I own the next two snaps of the plane and the one is on a grass place near some building of the same airfield. What photographs are earlier ? On my photographs the plane has a hand starting crank in engine, so I suppose the snap is earlier. Because the plane stayed in a perimeter of the airfield, together with different wrecks of planes (together with P-51 wreck!), so probably it was out of order or damaged (but not too much). I suppose, it landed here nearly before end of war, but not too long, because if the plane would spend here long time, American attacks would have destroyed it. The snap of the plane before hanger is probably from a "cleaning" of airfield from abandoned German planes.

2/ Unit.
There are bands around the aft part of the fuselage assigning the plane to fighter unit. There are some possibilities, what color combination with white - red, yellow, green, blue and black. Red, black we can cancel as it would be darker. If the color I compare with yellow 7, the color of band is slightly darker, so yellow is improbable. JG 51 should use green color, but I never seen any proof of it and the unit probably never used the band . The blue color is still possible, so JG 300 was probably its unit. If I compare an operation space of JG 51 and JG 300 in 1945, JG 300 was closer to Czech lands, than JG 51 - it was in north Poland and Germany. Against it, JG 300 finished the war in Ainring. All this proofs show, the plane is from JG 300.

3/ Marking.
It is clear, the plane is from I. Gruppe of JG. If the unit is JG 300 and the number 7 has yellow color, the 3./JG 300 is the right unit. If you go through photographs of Bf 109Gs from I/JG 300, you can see, marking with and without outline was used. White outline in the markings are not a problem.

4/ Plane.
We have two possibilities of version of the plane - Bf 109G-10 or G-14/AS. The second one is possible, but improbable. From the photo is certain, the plane uses engine DB 605D (it has accordingly a position of a special cover on the engine). So, if the plane would be G-14/AS, it would have to have replaced the original engine DB 605AS to DB 605D (after some defect for example). This is theoretically possible, but I don´t believe it. What is clear from the snaps - the engine DB 605D - this version used only Bf 109G-10 (and Bf 109K of course, but the 109 isn´t a K...). The plane was produced in Erla factory, because a type of under wing crosses (only black outline) was used only at this factory (not Regensburg either WNF). The plane has larger tires and a longer tailwheel yoke. A system MW 50 was installed in the plane. All the marks show to a G-10 version. Each of the marks could be on other versions too, but the DB 605D is only on a G-10. The factory produced G-10 of series batches 150, 151, 152, 490, 491. A position - in a center of rudder with first digit on tail - and shape of series number is important for next steps (only the last digit 6 is visible on "yellow 7"). Same position of the number is confirmed on G-10s from 150,151,152,491,610,612,770 batches. In case 610,612,770 the G-10s were from WNF and these G-10s had short tailwheel yoke and total different camouflage include underwing crosser with a black center and white outline. The series 491 used different size and shape of digits. The same digits of series number were used on G-10s from batches 150, 151 and 152. See, the digits are made by a stencil, as such the black color had to be interrupted at the top, center and bottom part of the digit. I know G-10s W.Nr.150 816, 150 119, 15153? and 152 043. The 150 119 "yellow 5" (you have it on your web pages under 3./JG 300) has the same dark camouflage, band around fuselage, grosser tires, it has under cowling of DB 605D without small bulges, didn´t use an antenna mast. Same things are valid for 150 816 "black 4" (probably from II/JG 300), except smaller tires, but with long tailwheel yoke; for 151 53? "22" from II/JG52. The W.Nr.152 043 "white 57" has same marks, but it used short tailwheel yoke.

BOBO: Why not, the game engine is lighter than the entire torso area, which may indicate such a significant upgrade. For that I have more examples! The big balloon tires and the elongated tailwheel yoke are not evidence of a G-10, because there are enough other G-10 (Erla) machines with the narrower tire with a short tailwheel yoke and DB 605D! White cross with no black bars are only outfield late war version and do not necessarily have to do with the works ... is not known to me anyway. Especially the wings could be changed at any time during or had an industrial repair renewed. But in the Erla-stations, the rectangular panels were used on the left side of engine, an enlarged engine range including the "missing bumps" on the motor base, behind the spinner, the very large oil cooler on the engine base and the new symmetric profit channels on the engine top.

Source: LWV 13 / 1998
Mr. Meincke: On the "special engine cover" is clearly less that this is a DB 605D, rather at the position of the hand-hole cover for the cold start device. This was the DB 605D above the opening for the hand crank start (as seen on the big picture is very nice by the way), including the DB 605AS. The remarks by BOBO at the tire / tailwheel yoke I fully agree with its content. This feature can be at best an approximate determination of the production time to - that "early" or "late" series. Just said also applies to the cross bar at the wing base. There is the photo of the Bf 109G-10, W.Nr.490629, "yellow 7", which has three of 7./JG Lt. Werner Petereit in Garz (March 11, 1945) --- this machine the "old "Balkenkreuze (black core, white border, black border) ... and ... a photo of a Fw 190A 1 in the 3./JG Insterburg in January 1945 with the attributed by Mr. Poruba Erla black bar crosses, although Erla has not built a single Fw 190.

BOBO: The Aircraft produced the Me 109G -10 in the series blocks 150xxx, 151xxx, 152xxx and 490xxx and 491xxx. The position of the serial number on the machine in Prague-Kbely was in the middle of rowing as a single digit number and the shape of the serial number is important for the further details. (Only the last digit 6 is on "yellow 7" viewable) The same position is stated on the serial number G-10 with the Wnr.Blöcken 150xxx, 151xxx, 152xxx, 491xxx, 610xxx, 612xxx and 770xxx. The BCF used the blocks 610xxx, 612xxx and 770xxx series for the G-10 and they had a short tail wheel and a totally different design of the beam crosses on the wing underside. The series 491xxx had different sizes and shapes of digits. The same digits of the serial numbers were found at the G-10 blocks the 150xxx, 151xxx and 152xxx. I know some Me 109G -10: W.Nr.150 816, 150 119, 15 153? 043rd and 152 The 150 119 "Yellow 5" (you have this on your web pages under 3./JG 300) is making the same dark camouflage, a torso belt, big balloon tires and then the bonnet of a DB and 605D is without an antenna mast. Immediately one thinks that for the Wnr. 150 816 was valid, the black "4" (probably from II / JG 300?), But with smaller tires and tail wheel with long, just for 151 53? "22" of II/JG52. . W.Nr.152 the 043 white "57" has the same physical characteristics, but just a short tailwheel yoke.

Mr. Meincke: I'm not sure if the 491xxx series guarantees actually use other digits, but one thing is: the serial number on the tail rudder was applied, until the middle / end of December 1944 normal, so that the 490xxx - series would not be in question. His conclusions regarding the relationship long tail wheel yoke -> series, I think this is very risky, especially since this observation in the photo of a machine (W.Nr.152043) seems to be based. Machines appeared in the rest of this block with the JG 27 in the reinforced room in Czech, because it just before the occupation of Leipzig, this still distributed to the various units.

Mr Poruba:
If I compare all the G-10s from the batches, I cans see, they use slightly smaller fuselage (and upperwing) crosses, same underwing crosses, same type of engine cowlings (type 110), do not use antenna mast. If too much detail in a construction and camouflages are on same group of Bf 109Gs, it means, they were produced in similar time and in a joint factory. If I combine all the details, the "yellow 7" is from Bf 109G-10 Erla factory, from batch 150 or 151st Very interesting is its camouflage with similar "yellow 5" W. No 150 119, from 3./JG 300 - dark fuselage with the dark, probably one, color on all sides and with a higher demarcation line on engine cowling.Due to I suppose the planes were produced in same time and our G-10 is from batch 150. The unusual camouflage does not look like from modification unit, because it is to "exact" (crosses around, stencil, swastika ...). Yet one idea for the proof is here. Both planes have unusual "pipe" or "tube" on a backside of a pilot in the cockpit armor plate cover. I do not know, what it is yet, but I think, maybe it is pressurized cockpit rest of (G-10s were rebuilt from older versions ..) or, and according me more probably, with some modification of heating on cockpit area (Bf 109Gs and Ks were a lot of problems with an icing of cockpit cover). Next interesting thing is a black spinner and leading part of engine cover. Some sources say, it is Over-painted yellow marking of four Air Force, but it is not true. The over-painting made in what units, so it was not too exact and it was not made by black color, but in some dark camouflage color. I think, the black marking coheres with a marking of 300th JG See to Fw 190A-8, "black4" from 300th 8./JG It has same black spinner and a leading part of cowling (and wingtips too). Do you know, why the plane had the marking? What pilot season or some of it marking? I found some mistakes in your color drawing, so I hope, it does not matter, if I write them to you - the "yellow 7" has not antenna mast, without the engine cover is small bulges (different type), the green color is not too solid (swastika in area, around 7), a position of number 7 is slightly different, some original stencils are on lighter color and all planning is dirty. The last number from W.Nr. is visible. I'm sure, I'll prepare a color drawing of the plane for our next parts about Air Force over Czech territory. It is my today's theory about the plane, but I have to say, some things are quiet unclear. I'm not sure, the number 7 is yellow, the number could be from two digits too (17.27 ,...). I do not know, how the plane got to Prague area and I do not know, what happened with the plane after war. The Bf 109G-10 could operated under different unit too - KG (J) 6 The unit used a lots of Bf 109G-10 from 150.151 and 152 batches and JG could overhanded the plane to 300 KG (J) unit (have you any informations about it?). But they are only next questions ... You see a process of my work and about Air Force planes during a recognition of some planes from documents and photographs. Now I'm working on a similar system of recognition of Bf 109G-6 and I hope, I'll be able to find more information from photographs. I have already worked on Bf 109G-6s from BCF factory and I can say, the system in function.

When I compare all representations to the G-10, then we have:
[ul]
[li]the slightly smaller fuselage cross beams and base crosses,[/li]
[li]the same types of hoods (Type 110),[/li]
[li]the lack of antenna mast,[/li]
[/ul]
If as many details can be found in a construction lot and in the camouflage at the same Me 109 G, it means that these were produced in the same period and in the same factory. If I combine all the details, the "Yellow 7" -10 from a Me 109G Erla factories with the Contract Section 150xxx or 151xxx. Very interesting is the similar cover with "Yellow 5" W. No 150 119 of 3 / JG 300 - probably a dark fuselage with one color on all sides and a higher marginal line on the hood. I assume that the aircraft were produced in the same time as our 150-G-10 of Contract Section. The unusual camouflage does not look like a field-moderate change, because this is "exactly" (to the crosses, maintenance instructions, swastika ...). And yet, a testament to the idea here. Both aircraft have unusual "pipe" on the back of armor in the cockpit area. I do not know exactly what it is, but I think it's maybe the rest of the pressurized cabin, or any change in the heating of the cockpit area (Me 109 Gs and Cs had many problems with the freezing of the cockpit cover. Another interesting detail is the black spinner say with the front part of the cowling. Some dubious sources, that is the yellow marker ring of Air Fleet 4. The labeling but was done in seasons, as these are accurate and was not made with black color, but dark in some camouflage. I think the black mark is a mark of JG 300 together, as shown on the Fw 190A-8, "Black 4" of the 300th 8./JG This has the same black spinners and front bonnet (and wing tips). I've discovered some errors in your color drawing, but it's not so important that I therefore mention it - the "Yellow 7" had no mast, the engine cover is not of the type 110 without the usual bumps, the green color so strong, the position of number 7 is slightly different, some maintenance instructions are in a lighter color and the plane pretty dirty. The last digit of the W.Nr. is visible. I'm sure I'll be a one color drawing of this aircraft for our next part to prepare the Air Force over the Czech territory, it is my current theory on the plane, but I must say that some things are still unclear to me I'm not sure if the figure is 7 yellow;. the rate could also . of his double-digit (17.27 ,...) I do not know how the plane came to Prague and I do not know what happened later with the airplane, the Me 109 G-10 also hunting another group might belong to, - KG (J) 6. this unit used a quantity of Me 109 G-10 of 150xxx, 151xxx and 152xxx construction lot numbers, was given the JG 300 is transferred from one machine KG (J) unit?

BOBO: A comparison with the aircraft type II./JG300 Fw 190A is wrong with this place. And at the Fw 190A-8 is definitely a machine for a repair industry, where there were also plates renewed. And so the colors are so dark, because this is already late to camouflage the defense realm is: RLM 81/82, 83, 76 (99?). I, in this context to an article of our graphic KWW (http://sig.jg300.de) out who had done this a major contribution.

Mr. Meincke: "G-10s were rebuilt from older versions" --- unfortunately, a "very old" story that is told again and again. Speak against this theory alone logical reasons and the idea can only be arrived authors who had no idea of what was happening in Germany in 1945 1944/Anfang end. It was here to be part of a ventilation system, the icing on the cockpit windows should avoid. This fresh air from the right wing radiator to two outlets was directly below the cockpit (one on each side) out. A further line ended right behind the pilot's seat. At the lower part of the "Galland - tank" had been a T-piece, consisting of a short leg and two long at the front end open connecting pieces consisted directly to the side windows of the "Erla - hood" formed (mentioned by Tomas Poruba tubes). The hood was closed, there was the "foot" of the "tee" directly above the aforementioned line and fresh air could be supplied. ( Very nice, this is the book by Ken Merrick [engl.Ausgabe] on p. 199, see below left ). This ventilation system is NOT ( I repeat: NOT ) identifying any G-10 - Series of Erla-works, because it is found in various series ( the Italian ANR machines, it's as the 491xxx block [not all machines ] and the aforementioned photo belongs to a WNF-machine, the W.Nr.610937 known in the U.S. ).

Again, all the above is the debate which can be found here:
http://www.jg300.de/me109g-10erla.phtml

Regards,

 

[Dusan]

Thank you very much Saul! B) I still have problem to open that link, I even tried with several computers :huh:
Now I have to think carefully what to do.


All the best!
Dusan.

 

[Dusan]

Hello,

Bf-109G10 progress,

Cockpit is not finish yet i have to sand some parts and to add more detail before paint job.

I rescribed some panel lines, and

I sprayed some interior color in this case Rlm76

Btw: I found this picture above in this book
Model Art290 Messerschmitt Bf109G/K
and in this book Jagdwaffe Vol 5 S/2 War In The East 1944/1945 with some nice illustration.

Thanks for looking!

All the best!
Dusan.

 

[moon puppy]

You going to paint the cockpit after closing up the fuselage?

 

[Dusan]

M.P. cockpit with this kit and other Hasegawa 109, can be inserted from below not glued yet . This is a clever Japan engineering :laugh:


All the best!
Dusan.

 

[phantom II]

I like that idea ! Sure would facilitate a lot of painting?masking...

Cheers, Christian B)

 

[sacktime]

looks like a nice kit and very nice :drinks :nothingtoad

 

[Dusan]

Hello ,


Some seven days I was without any motivation for modelling, I dont know why :S , but from Sunday till today I did a lot on Me-109. Next week I will go to the sea holiday and until then it must be done .


Update pictures:

Rlm66,

some scribing

ready for primer,

masking job.

Primer, but i had to rescribe some minor detail.

Paint job and some klear on it, RLM 76/81/83 cammo, very low contrast colors, I hope it will be more visible at the end with flatt (rlm74/75 is engine cowling).

I will add more pictures, lower parts of the wing, aluminum panels are painted with alclad.



Thanks for looking!

All the best!
Dusan.

 

[chukw]

Now doesn't that look sweet! Dusan, you have a gift for, among other things, clean and precise assembly. I'm not kidding- your builds are so neat and true that I'm envious. It seems I'm always chopping and propping things to get them reasonably straight! When your paint goes on, it looks perfect.

Cheers1
chuk