Italeri Manx Norton 1/9

[paddy]

My god this thing is crude to the extreme, i would imagine a fair proportion of these things wind up in the bin by page 2 of the useless instructions
Anyway it would probably be boring if it was easy but sometimes these days i do dream of Tamiya .
Todays problem is probably my fault but, what turns black decals white when you clear coat them ?
I'm sure i found a solution before but cant remeber ...lol , i think it was ether temp or them not being properly dry ?

fortunately i have failed in the past to build this to any standard so i have a spare set of decals.

 

[paddy]

You can see here i need to completely finish the oil tank as its sandwiched between the frame halves. It could go in after the frame is joined but its going to be a real fiddle and its risks damaging the paint. You can see here on this mock up

Happy with the crank case colour, in the end its not one colour but a mix and an airbrush job but it looks like a raw alloy casting i think..

 

[Nickedw]

Like the wheels! Takes me back to the first set I built for a Fokker triplane, I made an indexing plate for my mini lathe

Same idea as you basically - only 15 years ago apparently looking at the exif on the photos Eek! All looks very Heath Robinson now.

I’ve got the Manx Norton kit myself and keep threatening to have a look at it - I’ll see how you get on first now

 

[Heavens Eagle]

Excellent!

 

[Rhino]

Impressive!

 

[Nickedw]

Some good news today

View attachment 187948

this out of focus indexing head arrived today with Humbrol pot to give scale but it a 48mm chuck that rotates 360 degree with a Vernia display on the front that reads to 1 degree ( or less by eye) Nicely made, smooth operation and comes in its own wooden box. £96.00 from Proxxon

The info craftsman table on their fine adjust vice is good but it doesnt allow you to revolve round as centre point because obviously a 2 jaw chuck doesnt hold different dia central to a drill as only one jaw moves.

View attachment 187945

The standard infocraftsman dill will not take the above set up without their larger base and taller pillar as seen above so i have the std base and pillar spare. You can see its smaller than the new one behind.

View attachment 187947

The really good news/luck is the throat of the spare base and pillar just allows me to centre the drill to the chuck. although i did shave 1mm of the pillar clamp above just to give working room.



View attachment 187943

I will now permanently fix this indexing head or technically a diving head, to this base and then its easy to just swap the drill head from base to base

View attachment 187949

the purpose of this is i can now drill a ring of evenly spaced holes round any dia up to about 2.5" and lets face it who has ever got through a day without needing to do that :-0

Ooh, you got the brushless one then! I went for the 24V DC job and regret it a bit now. The engineering is beautiful but the motors/electrics are a bit nasty IMHO. I’m looking at their little end mill at the moment to mount on my Chinese mini lathe for all those Manual little non-CNC one off jobs now I’ve got a bit of faith in them after getting my hands on the drill

 

[paddy]

Ooh, you got the brushless one then! I went for the 24V DC job and regret it a bit now. The engineering is beautiful but the motors/electrics are a bit nasty IMHO. I’m looking at their little end mill at the moment to mount on my Chinese mini lathe for all those Manual little non-CNC one off jobs now I’ve got a bit of faith in them after getting my hands on the drill

They actually added an X-Y cross slide this week for the drill. My only criticism of the drill is they could have made the through a little deeper as the movement of the multi adjustable vice is very limited and its almost impossible to centre their own indexing head

XY Cross Slide Table (50×100mm) for Mini Drill Press & Milling Machine

Compact Positioning Platform for Drilling, Milling & Engraving Improve accuracy and control on your mini drill press or milling machine with this precision manual XY cross slide table. Designed for smooth, repeatable movement in both X and Y directions, it allows fine positioning for drilling...

innocraftsman.com

 

[paddy]

When you build your Manx take extra care, the 2 side plates that run from the crankcases back and hold the gearbox are not symmetrical and hold the gearbox about 10 degree off line. Put the primary drive chain on from crank to box and use that to position the box and not the locating pins.

 

[Nickedw]

They actually added an X-Y cross slide this week for the drill. My only criticism of the drill is they could have made the through a little deeper as the movement of the multi adjustable vice is very limited and its almost impossible to centre their own indexing head

XY Cross Slide Table (50×100mm) for Mini Drill Press & Milling Machine

Compact Positioning Platform for Drilling, Milling & Engraving Improve accuracy and control on your mini drill press or milling machine with this precision manual XY cross slide table. Designed for smooth, repeatable movement in both X and Y directions, it allows fine positioning for drilling...

innocraftsman.com

Yes saw that. Agree about the limited movement I’ve got the same xy/vice as you and it’s too bulky generally IMHO I replaced the the back resistance thumb screw with a mush head Allen screw and that gives you a bit more travel. I get the impression this stuff is built to be admired over used!

 

[paddy]

I machined of quite a bit off the post clamp which adds 5mm to the throat depth
Agree about style over substance, i bought their mini lathe and it was quite useless and sold it again on on Ebay within a week.

 

[Nickedw]

I machined of quite a bit off the post clamp which adds 5mm to the throat depth
Agree about style over substance, i bought their mini lathe and it was quite useless and sold it again on on Ebay within a week.

That’s a worry. I was seriously looking at their little end mill - bad idea then you reckon? I just want something small to go on my lathe saddle for odd jobs. I was encouraged by the drill in a toe in the water kind of way.

 

[paddy]

I would guess that their lathe was designed by someone who had never used a lathe.
Commercially available 8mm tipped tools are to long for the 8mm tool post
There is no adjustment to centre the tail stock to the chuck so you can turn parallel other than the gibs. unfortunately they also use the Gibs to clamp the tail stock which upsets the centring..
The tool post will not travel far enough to allow a boring bar to reach the centre of the work
The Chuck is a pigs ear needing 2 hands to tighten so you cant hold the work as you do so.
I could go on but really the whole thing is scaled down to far and is not really useful for model making in normal scales like 1/12

With my toolmakers hat on i would guess the mill being belt drive (not gear drive) will be massively under powered at slow speeds. Given the tendency for milling cutters to be dependant on correct speed to avoid chatter i think variable speed /low torque is going to be a problem
I cant see any way of clamping the x-y axis table so the table is going to move on the lead screw back lash which defeats the object of their accuracy claims on the spindle. Again this would cause uncontrollable chatter. My guess is they are looking to clamp on the gibs which is not really practical.
Given these limitations ( if i am correct) then the brushless drill and a the new X-Y cross slide and a collet chuck would probably get you 85% of the way to the mill for half the price but To be honest, my thought after the lathe was i wouldn't buy anything else without seeing it first.

Hope this helps

 

[Nickedw]

I would guess that their lathe was designed by someone who had never used a lathe.
Commercially available 8mm tipped tools are to long for the 8mm tool post
There is no adjustment to centre the tail stock to the chuck so you can turn parallel other than the gibs. unfortunately they also use the Gibs to clamp the tail stock which upsets the centring..
The tool post will not travel far enough to allow a boring bar to reach the centre of the work
The Chuck is a pigs ear needing 2 hands to tighten so you cant hold the work as you do so.
I could go on but really the whole thing is scaled down to far and is not really useful for model making in normal scales like 1/12

With my toolmakers hat on i would guess the mill being belt drive (not gear drive) will be massively under powered at slow speeds. Given the tendency for milling cutters to be dependant on correct speed to avoid chatter i think variable speed /low torque is going to be a problem
I cant see any way of clamping the x-y axis table so the table is going to move on the lead screw back lash which defeats the object of their accuracy claims on the spindle. Again this would cause uncontrollable chatter. My guess is they are looking to clamp on the gibs which is not really practical.
Given these limitations ( if i am correct) then the brushless drill and a the new X-Y cross slide and a collet chuck would probably get you 85% of the way to the mill for half the price but To be honest, my thought after the lathe was i wouldn't buy anything else without seeing it first.

Hope this helps

Oh that's saved me a few quid. Or more likely made me buy something more expensive!
I was wondering about using the drill with a collet chuck, I must admit, but concluded it wouldn't be stiff enough? Im planning on mounting it on my lathe so wouldn't need a cross slide and I think you can retro fit their little very-near depth malarky for Z.

The reason I'm doing any of this is that my CNC 4th axis needs a megabucks fusion 360 additional CAM license for advanced manufacturing and whilst Makera's (the machine maker) own CAM program supports 4th axis, it only does contour which is a bit naff and means I can't drill or slot any 4 axis stuff, which I really need to do, hence resorting to my steam driven old school kit.

 

[paddy]

Its been one of those days today, its rained from Dawn to Dusk, i left my boots outside last night and even they are full of water now. Upshot is i stripped the Norton oil tank yesterday and got the decals on before bed so when i lacquered it this morning i had more success and the black lines are still black. I never think of Decals as porous but they are it seems and the first attempt they were not completely dry.

You can see here why the tank had to go in before the 2 halves of the frame were joined.it looks a bit at an angle but its just the lens perspective

rear shocks next, they are pretty poor as they are half chrome and the attachment points to the Sprue are huge so i feel some alloy ones coming on. Trouble is i am latheless again and the shocks are 5.5mm and i only have 5mm or 6mm :-(

 

[paddy]

Something i haven't seen before is this Norton has an adjustable positioning system on the gearbox. Its obvious i supose on a pre unit engine that you would need to tension the primary drive chain and they did this by simply moving the gear box back. Disadvantage would be you woiuld then need to move the rear wheel back as well to re tension the final drive chain the kit part is there but its only half there, half a nut half an adjuster etc

any way i cheated and cut it off and used a couple of track rod ends i had left over from an MFH car build which aren't correct but sort of look the part , you can see them on the previous post above the gearbox.

 

[moon puppy]

any way i cheated and cut it off and used a couple of track rod ends

That ain't cheating, that's fabricating.

 

[Heavens Eagle]

I bought my watchmaker lathe about 23 years ago and obtained a bunch of chucks and attachments at the time. It is a Boley which is a decent German brand that I don't think is made anymore. The tail stock on it is able to also hold wire chucks and I have several 32 chucks (3.2mm or 1/8th) the tail stock doesn't have any side adjustment and isn't quite centered with the head stock. With some very creative setups to measure and some lapping tools I could true it up to the headstock. Anyway it can and does do everything I need and want at this point in time. I find that just being able to chuck up some stock and then use the T rest is usually quick and accurate enough for almost everything I do. I do have a couple of cross slides that I can mount up if there is a need for that.
If you are interested I will post up some photos for reference.

 

[Boogie Man]

Another masterclass! Stunning work!