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UK to give up MBT?

paddy

paddy

Well-known member
Looks like the British army will retire its main battle tanks (Challenger II) and not replace them.
another blow to the conventional weapons force as more and more money is directed to satellite a cyber projects.
The argument against the new carriers here is pretty strong as well now people realise the cost was not the billions in building them but the billions needed now just to defend them. Like wise a tanks vulnerability to an Apache it never even see's has to be questioned i suppose.. In the year 2020 who are we going to slog it out with in a Tank battle ? Changing times ?.
 
Yeah ridiculous. We almost gave up ours until Afghanistan when we took them over and used them to open up buildings that the ground troops couldnt. Now we have new ones.
 
I dont think i would want to be in a tank anymore, i watched a program a while back that showed a MBT being hit by a hellfire fired from an Apache 7 miles away and laser designated buy a single soldier on the ground. The Russians can do this with the S-400 from 25 miles away..
A challenger II is £5m. and Apache £13m
 
It's happened ever since a chimp hit another on the head with a stick.

Samurais and 'shiny armor' went away soon after gunpowder started propelling lead.

Think WWII where entering the Battleship was still king, then obsolete in a few months. Think of all the technological leaps in those 6 years.

Problem is, during times of peace, technology moves forward, but the military fights the last war, so theres a catchup phase. Think Billy Mitchell, court-martialed for his persistence of air power and bombing in between the wars.
 
I was at Ft. Irwin prior to Desert Storm and watched our soldiers trying to fight in the desert with the wrong tactics and equipment. One Bn commander was relieved "for cause" when he insisted on marching his troops 20K in 115° temps without sufficient water (I guess mountain fighters just have to tough it out). I was told at the out-brief that 100+ troops dropped to heat exhaustion and dehydration. I don't care what the "experts" say. You need troops with pointy sticks and big guns to take and keep ground. There will come a point, after we decide that we no longer need armor, that we will need armor. Horse cavalry was replaced by aircraft and light armored vehicles, and eventually helicopters. What are we going to use, in the future to breach walls or reduce structures? The A-10?
 
I started this thread about the British not looking to replace their aging MBT challenger II. a couple of years ago, since then i think they plan to upgrade a 100 or so however with the escalating problems in Europe that may change.
I cant help but think with the advent of the Drone and surface weapons like Javelin is their any point n the MBT anymore ?

Discuss :)

Russia =60b USD a year...Ukraine =4b USD a year and yet

_123760462_tank1.jpg
 
Maybe the point is most countries have a defence force, for that you need a Javelin, others have an offensive force, for that you need a MBT ? preferably more the the defence has Javelins :)
 
I was thinking aboot (Canadian vibe) this the other day, as it applies to Ukraine. Reminds me the US McNamara era of putting missles on planes tanks and the like

Note how real experience changed that thinking
 
Things like the once great Iowa class, not that they are vulnerable but they are past their time?

The Drone thing is scary...
 
Barney said:
I was at Ft. Irwin prior to Desert Storm and watched our soldiers trying to fight in the desert with the wrong tactics and equipment. One Bn commander was relieved "for cause" when he insisted on marching his troops 20K in 115° temps without sufficient water (I guess mountain fighters just have to tough it out). I was told at the out-brief that 100+ troops dropped to heat exhaustion and dehydration. I don't care what the "experts" say. You need troops with pointy sticks and big guns to take and keep ground. There will come a point, after we decide that we no longer need armor, that we will need armor. Horse cavalry was replaced by aircraft and light armored vehicles, and eventually helicopters. What are we going to use, in the future to breach walls or reduce structures? The A-10?
Click to expand...
Don't forget about the cruise missles or hellfires. Gary S.
 
We haven't completely abandoned the idea throwing rocks, we've just gone high tech with them. A concrete practice bomb with a guidance system bolted on can kill an armoured vehicle with little or no collateral damage. Partically effective when vehicles are near groups of civilians in residental areas, markets, schools and hospitals.

Cheers,
Rich
 
While tanks are more vulnerable than ever before, the Ukraine invasion isnt the best example to base a decision on. The Russians are using theirs in a really stupid way. Sending them into towns with no troop support, following roads and not deploying at first sign of an ambush and worst still having a really crappy resupply system. Tanks still have a place though. When Canada decided not to replace the Leopard C2 with another tank the Afghan war started. We sent our tanks over and they were very effective in knocking out and opening up th mud huts etc. We ended up getting Leopard 2A4's and A6's. If used properly tanks are very useful. Oh and reading back through the post, the S-400 is an anti aircraft weapon and not a ground weapon. They are very effective at keeping people away up to 400 Kms away. The Russians are seeing how effective the S-300's are and so have to fly low which puts them in range of other SAM systems. Their KA 52s which are probably more effective than Apaches are not fairing well. The present and future though are drones. They tactics and use are still evolving and becoming more effective.
 
I think its a clue that we over here are currently replacing our Apache longbow AH64 Mk1 with the new valiant AH64-E before we replace the old Challengers.
 
paddy said:
I started this thread about the British not looking to replace their aging MBT challenger II. a couple of years ago, since then i think they plan to upgrade a 100 or so however with the escalating problems in Europe that may change.
I cant help but think with the advent of the Drone and surface weapons like Javelin is their any point n the MBT anymore ?

Discuss :)

Russia =60b USD a year...Ukraine =4b USD a year and yet

View attachment 148180
Click to expand...

Talk about a rough neighborhood, you can't even leave your tank parked without having the tracks stolen
 
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