Paint

[paddy]

after many years of trying lots of different paints and trying to stick with easy clean water based i am wondering now about switching to solvent based.
I cant brush tamiya it just drags and i can do one stroke and lay it down and completely remove it on a second stroke It sprays ok but has a very limited colour range.
I spent a lot on trying to switch to Ammo Mig but that just doesn't spray at all. I find i can clog the needle even on a single test stroke. Even with 50% thinner and 25% retarder their one shot supposedly "use neat" primer clogged my AB before i even got any paint on the model It does sort of brush ok though....if you are quick
the only real success i have had is Humbrol enamel which brushes and sprays reasonably well.
Looking on line the answer with mig seems to be to use a bigger nozzle but that sort of defeats the object of a fine line AB
Having dug a little deeper on other modeling sites the general consensus seems to be that water based paint will never really work which is why they need to add loads of retarder before you even start.......which begs the question , why do they unleash this stuff on the market

 

[phantom II]

The secret of spraying Tamiya or Gunze ( aquos ) is using the Mr surfacer self leveling thinner around 50/50.
It also works with AK interactive lacquer paints .
Regards, Christian .

 

[paddy]

Thanks, i will order some mr surfacer, the AK paints seem to be the same as the Mig. its shame because the Mig Ammo paints are nice but they stay wet on the palette but the air pressure /flow seems to dry them on the needle almost instantly.

 

[phantom II]

I think you are thinking of the wrong paints . I'm speaking of the lacquer paints .
https://ak-interactive.com/product/real-colors-afv-full-range . That won't do with the wet pallet except make mud . Copy and paste.
Regards , Christian

 

[paddy]

You see to me , this is the problem
There are so many paints of so many types that its mind boggling. I bought some Mr colour the other day but the labels are in Chinese . If you buy Mig there are no instructions at all !! If you go online and put in Mig paints clog needle, You get thousands of people getting the same problem and the answer seems to be , dont buy mig acrylics.
My A-10 needs to be Light and dark Ghost grey. Tamiya dont make these colours and these are basic colours for the biggest air force in the World
I think i will go back to the tins of Humbrol that were perfectly adequate 50 years ago that said i will spend a couple of hours later trying to get the Mig to spray now i have bought it with different size needles.

 

[moon puppy]

I use Windex for a thinner for Migs and Vallejo paints. sometimes a bit of retarder but not often. There was a modeler Rob Hart who gave us a good tip about thinning. Instead of ratios thin the paint till you can dip a wire in the and pull it out and let it bead up, if it drips once and then beads up again it's good to go. Also milk consistency.

Tamiya has AS26 for light gull grey.

Color Reference Charts - United States

Check this out, has mixing guide for your greys.

 

[paddy]

That drip test works well with Tamiya and thats what i usually do.
A guy on line says dont thin Mig acrylics ? So i thought that cant work because the stuff is like syrup.....but it does. It sprays at 18psi straight from the bottle. Knock me down with a feather
I will continue the experiment later ...

 

[phantom II]

Just a thought . Vallejo , Mig and AK paints in the squeeze bottles are all water based products . I have never been happy with any of them . Matter of fact, the majority of builders I talk to have the similar issues.
If that's not frustrating enough , you might have one good bottle and the next one not .
Tamiya , Gunze , AK real colors are all petroleum based and work will with this thinner. I think you will also get it to work with Humbrol since it is enamel ( which is petroleum based ) .
All in all , the many paints have their own properties and are formulated to work best with their brand thinner .
That said , the leveling thinner seems to be universally good with Petroleum products

Anyhow, it's all confusing . Good luck .

Good luck , Christian

 

[Tojo72]

When I use Vallejo Model Color,I use their thinner and Flow improver,never have any problems spraying it anymore,a couple of times I used Mig Ammo I used the Vallejo stuff also and it sprayed great.
Model Color hand brushes great,I also like the way Mission Model hand brushes.

I also like spraying Tamiya and AK-Real with lacquer thinner,never no problems.

 

[paddy]

The more i look into this the more i am finding that there are only a few paint manufacturers who are bottling the same stuff for various suppliers ;-)

MiG also repackaged Badgers' Stynylrez paint " But then someone else says that Ammo may even be bottled for Ammo by Vallejo.

 

[Mo_]

I have thinned tamiya acrylic and gunze acrylic with Mr thinner leveling thinner with no ill effects. My main paints anymore are Gunze, both acrylic/lacquer, MRP, and AK real color lacquer based.

 

[Greg Kimsey]

For what it's worth, I thin my Tamiya paint with 50/50 alcohol and have extremely good results spraying with an airbrush. I don't love brushing with them though for some reason and prefer my Vallejo for a brush brush. However, the Tamiya do make a nice panel wash by first applying a layer of X-20a thinner to the model then using a fine brush I just lay the tip on the model and the paint wicks into the crevices. What is a relatively new revelation to me.

 

[paddy]

Just to be clear i use Tamiya and isopropanol usually and its very good. the problem is the very basic colour choice.
this evening ( its 8pm here ) i have sprayed the whole of the quite large A-10 with Mig light ghost @ 18psi and neat from the bottle. No thinner nothing, zilch,........It took half an hour with a very small tip but it didnt clog or spit.
If i hadnt read " dont thin" on line i would never had tried it because it just looks way to thick to spray

Maybe now someone else who has trouble with MIG Ammo will try it neat and be as surprised as i am?

 

[Greg Kimsey]

Just to be clear i use Tamiya and isopropanol usually and its very good. the problem is the very basic colour choice.
this evening ( its 8pm here ) i have sprayed the whole of the quite large A-10 with Mig light ghost @ 18psi and neat from the bottle. No thinner nothing, zilch,........It took half an hour with a very small tip but it didnt clog or spit.
If i hadnt read " dont thin" on line i would never had tried it because it just looks way to thick to spray

Maybe now someone else who has trouble with MIG Ammo will try it neat and be as surprised as i am?

So, you are using MIG acrylic right? Airbrush straight from the bottle?

 

[paddy]

Yes greg..............

 

[Greg Kimsey]

Yes greg..............

Well then, THAT is excellent information

 

[centaur567]

I stick with Testors paints and some Humbrel, although I've had some color issues with the former. Testors airbrush thinner is getting very expensive now a days. I have 2 or 3 cans in my stash and when that runs out don't know what I'll do. Maybe mix some lacquer thinner into mineral spirits. Gary S.

 

[paddy]

Conclusion

i can see a few problems here that may be specific to my application.
Firstly MIG needs to be applied in dust coats, maybe 5-6 coats to get a good colour coverage.
this is ok with a 1/35 tank but not really realistic on a 1/32 aircraft.
Because most plastic and primer used in aircraft kits is light grey, its almost impossible to spray a light dust coat of light grey and see what you are doing.
It takes a minimum off 24 hours to dry by the time its five coats thick unless you give it an hour between coats. basically if you spray and it looks even slightly wet, its on too thick and may/will separate.

I have decided to go back to Tamiya using the Mig as a colour guide I have found a mix of Sky Grey, white and light blue replicates light ghost grey and light grey and white replicates Dark Ghost so i am going to overspray the Mig and see what happens, it may react, it may fill the panel lines or it may work but Tamiya is easy to apply in 1 or 2 coats and dries in 20 mins. Easier to clean the AB as well . I also know that its ok with future and clear coats l, all unknowns at this stage with Mig.
Next stage will be either bin or Decals

On smaller areas i can see the benefit of Mig but i dont think its all its cracked up to be, more a case of very slick and clever marketing where, If it doesnt work, its the modellers fault, never the product. This might well be the case however when you just messed up your years work by choosing a paint option that is not particularly user friendly, its not really any compensation.
Sometimes the Devil you know........

 

[Heavens Eagle]

Lately I have been spraying Humbrol and using Xylene for a thinner. Xylene can still eat on styrene, but doesn't seem to be a problem when sprayed. Still using my old Testors enamels as well. When using Alclad, I only use Alclad paints and primers. Then the Alclad doesn't seem to be susceptible to being handled. For my detail painting I like to use a little known paint brand here in the US called GarageKitColors US. It seems the high end painters at Wonderfest use them a LOT and get extraordinary results. They airbrush well straight from the bottle or add water to thin a little. They brush quite well, 409 will dissolve and blend them, and they work over enamels perfectly.

 

[Barney]

Here is my $0.25

Hataka. They are lacquer, spray great with just a little thinner (self leveling) and come in a myriad of colors. I. also use AK real colors and they too are lacquers.

I have had a hate/hate relationship with Vallejo. Still have a bunch of Testors. Model Master. I just prefer lacquers and enamels.

I also us a MAC computer.

I know, I have no taste.