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Decal solutions
- Thread starter Gatto
- Start date
My favorite is off the market now, Champs Decal Solution. Stuff is liquid gold, I know where one bottle is but the holder of it is tight fisted.
Solvaset works as well.
there are some others but Solvaset is pretty much my staple.
Course it only works as well as the application. Best to apply on a gloss finish.
Solvaset works as well.
there are some others but Solvaset is pretty much my staple.
Course it only works as well as the application. Best to apply on a gloss finish.
jknaus
Administrator
Mr Mark softener - very agressive. Decals wrinkle some, but dont be tempted to touch them. When it dries they flatten out. Disolves some weaker decals.
Micro sol - pretty much a standard.
Micro set - decal setting solution.
Valejo has a liquid. Havent really tried it yet.
Some friends of mine decal with future, putting a small puddle down then decalsing over and squishing out the excess. I havent tried it.
James
Micro sol - pretty much a standard.
Micro set - decal setting solution.
Valejo has a liquid. Havent really tried it yet.
Some friends of mine decal with future, putting a small puddle down then decalsing over and squishing out the excess. I havent tried it.
James
phantom II
Master at Arms
James, do you know of a dealer that has the MR softener or set on hand. It seems everyone is out. Would like to try them out.
Cheers, Christian B)
Cheers, Christian B)
Gary (Old Dog) did a fantastic review of these solutions a while back at Swanny's, but that was lost when the website was hacked.
Maybe we could recreate that. Get a list of products and, with Gary's direction, recreate the experiments he did.
Maybe we could recreate that. Get a list of products and, with Gary's direction, recreate the experiments he did.
Well shoot, Was it Rob Hart?
AndyFettes
Master at Arms
I used future works perfectly well on flat surfaces
I agree about getting a bit of a database going that we could incorporate into the Sprue University
I agree about getting a bit of a database going that we could incorporate into the Sprue University
Maybe if we say his name three times he'll show up.
Rob Hart!!!
Andy you would have liked the study he did. He took all the major players in teh decal solution game and did a very scientific study using several decals and surfaces.
Rob Hart!!!
Andy you would have liked the study he did. He took all the major players in teh decal solution game and did a very scientific study using several decals and surfaces.
ROB HART!
That sounds excellent, no need to reinvent the wheel then.
Some things from experience. Before choosing a solution, be mindful of the decals and test it out. Older Monogram decals worked well with the SuperScale/MicroScale system but melted with the SolvaSet, Daco Set, Champ solutions. Later decals of the same kit (with a different lot number in the back) were impervious to any solutions and I keep those for making internal stringers. simply cut strips and apply then prime.
Back to decals used for markings. After a few episodes with kit decals behaving differently when the kit brand changed the printer, I resort to aftermarket only or mask my models and paint them.
The system is two parts. The 'set' is a setting solution designed to allow you to move around a decal while not letting air to get trapped beneath. Using this alone and blotting the decal results in a nice decal adhering only with its own adhesive but, based on thickness and surface details, not snuggling down as the setting solution dries under it. The 'sol' is the solvent, usually has a vinegar smell, and this softens the decal film enough to cause it to wrinkle then relax as the adhesive dries.
Solvaset, Daco Set, and Champ (I don't recall Mr Mark Softer although that is a solvent one or Tamiya's) have both setting and solvent solutions incorporated. Many modelers treat it like a setting solution and brush a nice layer of it on the model then apply the decal not realizing it is too much solvent. Some even dilute it with up to 50% mineral water to prevent the meltdown. Funny thing is, theses solutions are what some thick kit decals need!
In all cases, one must wash the model with a mineral water moistened (not wet) wide flat brush to ensure any adhesives that washed out don't cause a halo effect. Any bubbles or places where the decal did not snuggle can be pierced with the tip of a new blade and a drop of 'sol' solution added.
From my review of Pin Up Decals on this site:
"Some tips on working with these decals.
Inks are fragile, use scissors to free the subject from the sheet but allow plenty of room to trim closer with a knife. Use a fresh blade in the knife to gently cut the film (not the paper backing) to minimize the touch up needed if the white film shows.
In the case of these dark backgrounds, cut the film to replicate either a panel line or freshly cleaned section (rectangle or oval).
Very warm water allows for flexibility. MicroSol and MicroSet work well with the sheets. The decals do allow for some handling so blotting out bubbles is the first recourse before resorting to the blade to release the trapped air."
From a review on this site of AFT decals:
"Water slide decals are printed onto a film which has water activated adhesive. This film is a clear membrane which may be spot placed or continuous on the complete sheet. It may yellow with age when not used. Should the decal have yellowed, tape to a window which faces the sun and the yellow should be bleached away in a few weeks.
The surfaces to which the decal is to be applied should be clean and free of any oils, dust, and grime. The former inhibits adhesion while the latter items will be seen after application of the decals.
Tools for wet decals.
Tools needed are tweezers, a soft wide brush, setting solution, solvent solution, blotters, scissors, hobby knife, gloss coat, semi-matte (satin) and/or matte (flat) coat. Several of these items are to avoid silvering, whereby air gets trapped under the decals.
Gloss Coat the area to be decaled. This can be a spot coat or the entire model. When weathering is to be very light, as in the case of aircraft, the full vehicle should be coated with the gloss clear paint. Heavily weathered vehicles, as in armor, can have only the areas being decaled coated. The purpose is to provide a smooth surface for the decals to be applied eliminating the microscopic air pockets which cause silvering.
Note that some decals do not react well to an acrylic under coat such as Future. If this is your usual method, please test on scrap when using decals printed by eastern European companies.
At this time, I fill a flat saucer with water that is very warm, almost uncomfortable. I cut the markings which I want to apply away from the sheet. If the film is of the continuous carrier type, I use a hobby blade to LIGHTLY outline the marking. The idea is to cut through the film and NOT into the backing paper. Going slowly and gently, you will feel when the films resistance gives in and the blade will be resting on top of the backing paper.
The area to which the decal will be applied is laid horizontally and decal setting solution is applied with the wide brush. The purpose of the decal setting solution is to displace any air and to pull the decal taut to the surface as it evaporates.
The decal is dipped into the very warm water ensuring the backing paper has been thoroughly coated. It is now placed on a paper towel to allow the backing paper to absorb the water yet the excess is blotted. I allow about thirty seconds for most decals, they tend to curl up and then relax flat again. The curling happens as the backing paper expands before the adhesive releases the decal, and then the adhesive releases the decal allowing it to return to a flat state.
Using tweezers pick up the decal. If it was of the continuous backing film type, try to remove as much of the excess clear film with the brush. Now, use the brush to slide the decal off the backing paper and onto the surface. The setting solution should cause the decal to float a little allowing you to position it exactly where you want. When in the correct position, use a blotter (the corner of a paper towel is my choice) to soak away the excess setting solution. If the decal moved out of position, add solution and move back then whisk the solution away once more.
Now is time to apply the solvent solution. This solution reacts with the decal film to soften and elasticize it allowing it to conform to any surface details without distorting the markings. The solution often includes vinegar as the solvent. Apply with a wide brush ensuring to cover any areas where surface details are found under the decal as well as the film’s edges. The decal may wrinkle up during this process. It is normal so do not touch it for at least a few hours.
I normally wait overnight and inspect the decals in the morning sun. I look for silvering (trapped air), ripped decal film edges, and solution residue – in this specific order. If there is silvering, a few stabs with the tip of a new #11 blade followed by a dose of solvent solution normally cures it. If the edges are ripped, I gently use the sharp knife to score inboard of the rip and use setting solution to loosen the torn pieces for removal. In both cases, I must wait for the solutions to dry before going to the third scenario and using a wide brush in warm water to wipe away any solution residue.
Once satisfied, I seal the decals with a finish coat. Depending on the subject, this may be a gloss, satin or matte coat. Then, I allow one week for the finish to completely cure before applying any weathering."
I hope this helps some,
phantom II
Master at Arms
Well if you say that these decals do not like Acrylics, what is the answer? That ia all most people use now days. Is there a clear coat to satisfy it ? so the decals will work ?
Cheers, Christian B)
Cheers, Christian B)
I did a review/test of a selection of decal setting solutions on Swanny's site several years ago. As I recall, I tested Champs, Micro Sol, Mr Mark, Solvaset, straight vinegar, and Future on some Microscale and Hasegawa decals. I applied the decals to a scrapped kit that had corrugated skin surfaces, compound curves, and deep panel lines across compound curves. The kit had been painted with Testors gloss enamel. All but the straight vinegar worked okay, but the Champs worked the quickest and with the fewest applications.
That's why I was buying Champs, but sadly they stopped producing it.
I found the photos and my original notes: I did one application of Champs, Mr Mark Softer, Micro Sol, Solvaset, White Vinegar, and Future. Here are the results:
I was impressed by the Champs and tried it on a Microscale decal and and a Hasegawa IP decal applied over some raised louvers.
I was impressed by the Champs and tried it on a Microscale decal and and a Hasegawa IP decal applied over some raised louvers.
That's great Rob! Crying shame Champs is out of production.
Wonder if there's any new stuff that should get the Rob test?
Wonder if there's any new stuff that should get the Rob test?
Yeah, I think there are some new solutions on the market now that probably could use a comparison test. I did have a bad experience with champs and some Microscale liquid decal film. I had applied the liquid decal film to some Spada decals and when I put some Champs on them they wrinkled up, wouldn't lay down, and the liquid decal film badly discolored (turned a vivid amber)
