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Churchill frustration

I

iowabrit

Member
Take a look at this pic
6.jpg



A Churchill Mk IV? yes, but what about that armour covering the gun mantlet? I've found several photos of churchills like this but only one giving any unit info which says 'a churchill tank of 34 Tank Brigade in Roosendaal Oct 30th 1944'.

There is another pic of one having work done on the suspension (mined?) August 4th 1944 in Villers Bocage IWM B 8578 but no info on the unit and another B 13933 captioned 'Schilberg 20th January 1945 with 9th Durham Light Infantry'. Which might be helpful except there is no town called Schilberg. This pic also appears elsewhere captioned as 'Sittard'. Then there is a pic of crocodiles taken in 'St Joost north of Schilberg', however when you look on google maps St joost is in fact north of Sittard' GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

Anyway......To me, the armour looks like a plate of sherman side applique armour because it is tapered (all the pics show this) and if it was just cut up boiler plate why would they bother to taper it?

Now to really get me going there is a pic (which I have never seen before) of a tank with this armour on the box of the new AFV Club BTS track set which i got in the mail today. Any ideas anyone? I'll fess up now and admit that I have also posted this question on SMW
 
Can't really help with the specific armor question but googleing the towns show they both are fairly near each other in The Netherlands. Not far from each other relatively.

I would not depend too much on captions of photos, recent photo of a P47 I posted had at least two different captions with conflicting information.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sittard

http://www.maplandia.com/netherlands/limburg/schilberg/
 
iowabrit said:
Take a look at this pic
6.jpg



A Churchill Mk IV? yes, but what about that armour covering the gun mantlet? I've found several photos of churchills like this but only one giving any unit info which says 'a churchill tank of 34 Tank Brigade in Roosendaal Oct 30th 1944'.

There is another pic of one having work done on the suspension (mined?) August 4th 1944 in Villers Bocage IWM B 8578 but no info on the unit and another B 13933 captioned 'Schilberg 20th January 1945 with 9th Durham Light Infantry'. Which might be helpful except there is no town called Schilberg. This pic also appears elsewhere captioned as 'Sittard'. Then there is a pic of crocodiles taken in 'St Joost north of Schilberg', however when you look on google maps St joost is in fact north of Sittard' GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

:lol: ASK A DUTCHMAN:laugh:
There is a village called SCHILBERG,only at a 10minutes cardrive from my place.
It is a part of the town of ECHT.
SCHILBERG together with the village PEY grew over the years onto ECHT.So maybe google maps will give not the name SCHILBERG but ONLY ECHT.
ECHT is situated halfway between SITTARD in the south and ROERMOND in the north.
St Joost is just on the northside of ECHT.

There is a book over the BATTLE FOR THE ROERTRIANGLE wich was fought over here in this area.
It has several pictures in it regarding the Britisharmour used,it might be useful for you.
I don't have a link but maybe you could just google BATTLE FOR THE ROERTRIANGLE.

I hope this helps you a bit!

Greetings,Ron
Click to expand...
 
Well, thanks Ron, that would explain the map confusion. But I'm still not sure of the regiment so I'll keep looking. Thanks for the info on the book...
 
iowabrit said:
Well, thanks Ron, that would explain the map confusion. But I'm still not sure of the regiment so I'll keep looking. Thanks for the info on the book...
Click to expand...

Iowabrit you are welcome,
I will try to find out what unit fought at SCHILBERG...but I guess it will take me some time,please wait and I will get back with more info.

Greetings,Ron.
 
More or less a answer;I studyed the book BATTLE FOR THE ROER TRIANGLE by Har Gootzen and Kevin Conner and came up with this:SCHILBERG was liberated by 1st Royal Tank Regiment but...they owned Sherman and Cromwell tanks,and NO Churchill tanks.
But you will find in the book a photo from a line of CHURCHILL tanks loaded with lot of spare tracks and infantry from the DURHAM LIGHT INFANTRY at the Schilberg crossroads.
These tanks and infantry on the photo did Not fight there,but where on their way towards St.Joost after 1st RTR and 2nd Devonshire Regiment[infantry] cleared Schilberg.
It is mentioned that the Churchill tanks that supported the assault on St.Joost are from the 'BUFFS' [the 7th Battalion ROYAL EAST KENT REGIMENT].That unit was part of the special armour of the 79th division.[Also known as 'HOBART's FUNNIES'].
There are two photo's from the Churchill tanks in action in St. Joost,alas from the back and sides from the tanks.

I hope this info can help you ...B)
Greetings,Ron.
 
Thanks for that Ron. I believe the unit with the modified churchills is the one that supported the DLI, unfortunately I havent been able to pin down which unit that was and needless to say, I have no idea of WD numbers or unit markings...:-( but thats half the fun.........trying to figure this stuff out.
 
:D :mpup

Right stop that its silly !!

I do like a bit of Monty Python, me !!! (y)



Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of Elderberries !
 
I could do one more thing, and that is;ask elderly people in Schilberg and St.Joost who did see the Churchill tanks.

But then you have another problem,...most civilians were evacuated from the villages before the battle hit.
And [I guess] they wouldn't know the difference between Cromwell and Churchill tanks...for them it were just tanks,painted in green paint or in white paint.
For sure they wouldn't know the difference between a 'normal'Churchill and a modified one.:unsure:
There was a war going on and people worried more about there loved ones and staying alive then anything else.

It stays a bit unsure but I would stick with the modiffied Churchill tanks belonging to 'The BUFFS'.


Indeed it is a CHURCHILL FRUSTRATION.:( :laugh:


Greetings,Ron.
 
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