F-4E Vietnam Weapons Load

[Skinny_Mike]

Greetings folks. I have a question for the F-4 experts out there. Sometime in the near future I am looking to do a dual build of a Vietnam era Wild Weasel Hunter Killer team out of Korat RTAFB. For those that don't know, the F-105F/G Wild Weasels typically flew in a 4 ship of two F-105s with a two ship of F-4E's. According to Ed Rasimus in his book Palace Cobra, the F-4's typically carried 4 CBU-52s/SUU-30 canisters. Unfortunately that's about all he says about the weapons load. I've done quite a bit of online research and found some options but I don't know if any are of the "killers". To complicate things, the F-4's at Korat were rotated through each mission so who knows if the photos are of a bomb load or a SAM site killer. Anyway - here's what I've found (pictures are from a google search and not mine, they are posted here for discussion):

Both are cool looking load outs, but I have no idea if these are accurate for what I am trying to do. Its the Mk82s. They were not mentioned in the book, my only source of reference here.

I also found this one, which is a photo of the hunter/killer team refueling, but I can't really make out the load out at all.

If anyone has any thoughts I'm happy to hear them. In the end I would like to be accurate but its not going to make or break the end result.

BTW - the book, Palace Cobra is excellent. Mr. Rasimus also wrote the book When Thunder Rolled which is about his time flying F-105s in Vietnam. Both are recommended reads for anyone into that.

Thanks for the help guys!
Mike

 

[moon puppy]

What are those on centerline? I"m on the road today Mike but will try to contribute some when I get situated.

 

[RichB]

One configuration I read about was 2 x EFT (outbd pylons),4 x AIM-9 (inbd pylons), 2 x AIM-7 (aft positions)and 4 x CBU-52 (centreline pylon) as the F-4E's also provided MiGCAP for the flight.

Cheers,
Rich

 

[RichB]

Found couple of little blurbs about the F-4E weapons load.

One mentioned carrying 2 x EFT (outbd pylons),6 x Mk 82 (3 per inbd pylon), 3 x AIM-7 (1 fwd & 2 aft positions), 1 X ALQ-87 ECM pod (fwd AIM-7 position) and 6 x Mk 82 (centreline pylon).

Another mentioned they carried a mix of CBU-52's and Mk 82's.

If CBU-52's weren't available they would use CBU-38's.

Cheers,
Rich

 

[phantom II]

The F-4 career in SE. is slightly before my experience .

I can add these common sense thoughts though.

I have never seen anything loaded on the outboard pylons except in the weapons training barn Loading all seven stations plus a missile load would mean an almost immediate refuel at takeoff since with just a normal load would empty out the two 370 gal tanks when they left the runway .

The 600 gallon centerline ( if fitted ) would also be empty at takeoff and would likely be jettisoned at the end of runway since it is such a large drag inducing load.

1972 and latter, you would be likely to see two tanks missiles and possibly a bomb on inboard tanks and a Mer. on the C/L loaded with bombs.

Could be dumb bombs , CBU's , High drags and at one time rocket/flare pods.

I will not criticize the author as I have not read the book but flying a Mig cap with a load of anything but rockets makes little sense to me.

From the people I know that were there , the first thing that happened whenever someone though there was a Mig in the area was to clear off the F-105's so they could leave the area at high speed.

Secondly I think that if any F-4 drivers engaged any Migs with a bomb load, they never came back . So, I am curious as to why they would want to waste the bombs and the extra fuel ?

Just my thoughts although and I am not able to very that. I also remember them mentioning sending out F-105's with only one bomb underneath because they were short on bombs :idonno

Lot of crazy things went on over there . It would be best to be reasonable :coolio

I'm also pretty sure they carried some AGM's over there.

Cheers, Christian

 

[RichB]

In the first config I mentioned, when it was confirmed that they were the target of interest for a pair of MiGs, the F-105's turned back and the F-4's jettisoned their wing tanks and centreline ordinance to engage. They shared a maneuvering kill of a MiG 19 when it flew into the ground, a MiG 21 headed for some low cloud and home. The F-4's rejoined with the F-105's and headed home.

Cheers,
Rich

 

[moon puppy]

What can I add, I only trained on them and not very long. The tail fins of those CBUs threw me off, never seen one anyway just threw me off.

 

[Skinny_Mike]

Thanks for all the insight guys. It seems like the only constant I can find is the 4 CBUs. But the Mk82s were certainly carried with them as evidenced above. I like the looks of both load outs so I might just wait to see what load out the navy f-4 gets, and then decide what will be where, just to mix things up.

I will include the sparrows though, while MIGCAP is a strong word, the F-4s in the hunter killer teams carried A2A just for self protection of themselves and the Weasels that where doing the hunting. Kinda went with the first in last out mission profiles.

Hmmmm - this might just end up being the year of the Phantom for me....

Mike

 

[helios]

Hmmmm - this might just end up being the year of the Phantom for me....

You almost say this like it's a bad thing.

 

[Skinny_Mike]

Hmmmm - this might just end up being the year of the Phantom for me....

You almost say this like it's a bad thing.