Fiat GP 806

[paddy]

Some time ago i built Italeri s little Fiat 806 Grand prix racer from what was then the Protar kit of the early 1970s and last night i was looking at an article which basically pointed out that just about everything is wrong with the original kit I also noticed on my recent Harley build that Italeri had got some major errors in that model as well.
I think we are all used to small mistakes in aircraft kits which, if noticed, can be put right and these days with 3D scanning and CAD machined moulds it might even be quite hard to get a basic shape wrong for an aircraft or car but this is an interesting picture.

Top is an original pic
Middle the OTB build
and the bottom the builders build.

Look at the difference in body height from chassis to Exhaust on the first 2 pics and i noticed that the car has 72 spoke wheels and the model has 36 spokes.
The rear is quite different and look at the steering rod size below the exhaust /front.

I have this model in my stash but i dont think i could do, or be bothered to put this right but it does make me think i could build it without the body and use it to practice some "re-engineering" ideas. It might be possible to put the wheels right for starters but cutting the body down could open up a world of pain...............just thinking out loud really

 

[paddy]

A page from the original Protar instructions shows little Johnny how to assemble the metal springs, then heat them up on the gas stove and dunk them into a bowl of oil to soften them Italeri did away with the metal parts...i wonder why

 

[moon puppy]

Looks like the OOB photo is closer to the subject than the others. If wheel size is consistent that should have been used as a gauged for the other photos.

 

[Heavens Eagle]

Yeah this is the kind of mess I ran into on the Trumpter Ju87A. The basic plane shape was right. After that it was a nightmare which is why it has been built on in steps over a VERY long time.
Their Arizona kit is another one that was done for looking good out on a pond, but is horrid on so many details.

 

[Tim A.]

Woo. I can see some of the work the builders model has going for it. Idk...put the those rims on the OOB and I'm with Bob.

 

[Heavens Eagle]

Yeah it is quite hard to compare items with photos. The various lens and perspective issues can make it a bit of an issue when comparing things like this. Best way is to get as far back as possible to take the photo. This reduces the angle of the lens point as much as possible.
I did something similar when I started on my Arizona build comparing it to the original navy builders drawings in profile. I set the model on the top of my fence outside and backed off about 30 ft with a zoom lens then I could superimpose it over the original drawing and it was fairly close with an exception at the lower stern.

 

[paddy]

So here is my first problem, dug the box out to have a look at the offending wheels.

they are made up of 4 parts per wheel as above and assemble to look like this

Basically this is a 36 spoke wheel and it should be 72 so each of the 4 sections need twice the number of spokes. The ones that are there are .8mm and should be about .5mm. That doesnt sound a lot but its about 40% too big. Each section of the wheel rim is to thing to drill to take a .5mm spoke i think.
It might be possible if i retained the .8mm original spokes and added 36 more but to cut the originals and add more once the rim to hub positioning is lost is a tall order.
The italeri Alpha i built a while back had the same problem but there was a guy making new resin hubs and rims for that model but they were a different size and i need to retain this size to get the tires to fit.

This was my Alpha Romeo wheel with 72 spokes

thinking cap on....

 

[Heavens Eagle]

You do have a little bit of a dilemma Paddy.

 

[moon puppy]

Seems like you'd stand a better chance starting from scratch. That new Lathe that's due could help.

 

[paddy]

You are right Bob
I have looked at this from all angles and although i could probably improve on the kit wheels a bit its hardly worth it spending a load of time on something that will still be wrong.
I dont think the lathe will be much use for these , it will be too small, the hubs would be easy enough but the rims would be difficult as they would be too big for the chuck so you would have to work them on a mandrel. This is really an ideal job for Printing. Put it this way if you wanted to make 5 of these on a lathe and charged by the hour it would be cheaper to buy a printer , even if you never used it again

This again , now i am retired, is another thing i might need to buy but TBH it doesnt hold any interest for me unlike machine tools. I can see my way forward is severely limited due to current lack of equip and facilities if i want to improve on OTB.
For the time being i will keep experimenting and build up this Italeri Fiat 806 (with stock wheels)

is anyone interested in a thread bearing in mind i did a thread on this kits a couple of years ago ?

 

[paddy]

Another day of experiments that didnt quite work . I want to get a good aluminium finish So went back to basics with Alclad and got in to a world of trouble... I was sure i used Isopropanol to clean the gun but it just bunged everything up.. It worked well on polished aluminium but turned Basic aluminium into a gloop in the gun. Eventually i decided it was the alclad that had run out of shelf life and chucked it away, i checked on line and its alcohol based so should be fine with isopropanol otherwise known as rubbing alcohol. I wish i had know it goes off before i spent a whole afternoon trying to fix it and cleaning the spray gun
aluminium finish is really hard to replicate because i dont want light metallic silver, i want aluminium....which is not metallic in finish. Its so hard to achieve , not least because polished flat and extruded and cast aluminium are all different colours. Often its a flat finish but its not light grey if you see what i mean. Best cast alloy i have come up with so far is a MRP titanium with a splash of brass. The other factor that greatly effects aluminium paints ids the base colour. Black or white gives a very different result but i an going to experiment with yellow and blue as well.

i have started my Fiat 806 GP car and the purpose of this build is to experiment with just this sort of thing. God knows what it will end up like ? Probably Johnny Cashes "one piece at a time"...

 

[paddy]

This probably wont interest anyone here but its a thread on another forum detailing how a guy scratch built a 1/9 fiat 806. Its shows the pictures and workings and compares them to the Italeri and Protar versions as well which were 1/12
Basically he couldn't find anything right on the kits at all from the steering wheel to the wheels and tyres, body shell and all the details...

Fiat 806: research and scratchbuilds

Introduction This thread was started intending to unite those interested in building the Fiat 806 based on thorough research and photogrammetry. See also the great Fiat 806 Gangshow build album. In the current thread there will be (at least I hope people will post) extensive research on the origi...

www.britmodeller.com

it is a simply amazing thread that stretches to over 200 pages. and the end result is pretty spectacular .....and
unintentionally, makes people like me want to give up before i start. Just his research is outstanding alone.

what it does do though is to point too dozens of ways of doing things differently especially scratching parts and also shows some flaws in the kits that are easily put right..