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CRITIQUE OR RIVET COUNTING? AN EDITORIAL

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MrT

Master at Arms
Staff member
Critique or rivet counting?

There are all kinds of modeling web forums covering every kind of modeling you can think of. Modelers Alliance is one the friendliest sites on the web. We promote kind and civilized conversation. We have zero tolerance for trolls and flame wars. Everyone here goes out of their way to encourage modeling and modelers. All these qualities are great things, but have we become so sweet that we don’t offer honest advice when we see something is not right or could be improved. Now I’m not advocating that MA go over to the dark side and become a group of psycho rivet counting individuals who won’t build the newest plane model out because the engine cowl opening is a scale inch too small. In 1/72 scale! However are we doing a disservice to modelers if we don’t point out things that could make them better modelers? Do we have a mutual admiration society where we don’t feel free to make constructive comments about each other’s work for fear of hurting someone’s feelings? Or our we just afraid to be labeled “Rivet counter”

Let’s face it this kind of thing can turn petty and mean spirited, and there are other web forums that seem to make it their mission to pick your build apart. Or worse yet they may not comment at all. I have to admit I have posted pictures of models that I have done here on some of those sites just to see what their resident “RC’s” will say and sometimes I have learned some things. It’s not easy to hear someone say “You know that version didn’t have one of those”, but you did learn something you can use the next time. As I have said before I think it is good for us as modelers to submit our work to the critical eye of someone else. They may be able to see what we have ignored.

I think we sometimes have a knee jerk response and move away from an honest critique of each other’s work because of the bad behavior we have witnessed on other sites. However too much sweetness and light can’t be a good thing either.

What do you think???
 
Re: CRITIQUE OR RIVET COUNTING? AND EDITORIAL

Like when i commented on your fuel cans on the lrdg :) i saw another very nice chevy and that guy glued the lid on the wrong side.. so you are not alone on that misstake :)

As long as it's friendly advice on how to improve your model i'm ok with it, but some people are just doing it to show of how much they know. (i wonder if some of them ever built a kit?)

If i see something that's not right, then usually i say something and i expect the same back.

//Mats
 
Re: CRITIQUE OR RIVET COUNTING? AND EDITORIAL

Ahhh Terry is taking out the BIG stick again and poking us.

Well for me I come on here to share my love for the hobby. I know I have a load to learn still and every model I build I try something new or difrent on it. This forum and its great contributers are great for a relatively newby like me. People here are willing to share theyr builds and how they did it without them feeling like they are going to be judged. This alows for a nice steady growth in the hobby for me personaly.

On a side note I have been in a slump this last 2 months and one build have me pulling out an old started project to see if I can maybe do a few of what I saw on that great build - I have been inspired once again by an build posted on here.
 
Re: CRITIQUE OR RIVET COUNTING? AND EDITORIAL

I am an unabashed rivet AND bolt counter. However, I know that people build for different reasons so I try to only offer constructive advice. They can take it or leave it. It is there for them, or anyone else who reads it, to use as they wish.

Regards,
 
Re: CRITIQUE OR RIVET COUNTING? AND EDITORIAL

Come on Saul, I doubt you fit that category as Psycho rivet counter that's for SA Dave.
Terry I know what you mean about those other forums and I have to agree with you there. I was searching for some info on the F8J and VF 111 only to be sarcastically told that they didn't fly J models at all and that he thought the J well was less than desirable. :vmad Well I am old enough to have pretty thick skin but still I wonder what license they have to be so judgmental. :idonno

Any way, Ill just say it is an E model and put the sharks mouth on it just to spite him. :D
 
Re: CRITIQUE OR RIVET COUNTING? AND EDITORIAL

I guess it's the hot rodder in me that likes the idea of combining parts to make something and the rivet counters take a lot of the fun out of modeling for me. Not every subject was photographed and just because there was one photo that shows something one way, does not mean that's the way they were ALL done.

I do like to hear real opinions, not just pats on the back, but all feed back is welcome. This is a modeling forum, so just looking at the pictures (lurking)is really not what this is all about. Get involved, you never know who is a friend and mentor you did not know you had.

:drinks
 
I used to really look for the atta boy comments. then something in me said wait, cant they see that I really screwed up on such and such. I started to really look for those that would tell me what I did wrong. Now I am just not sure where I fall. I spend a lot of time doing modifications. I know that I am not the greatest model builder. I know I make mistakes. (at times a great number of them) I do however look for the honest opinion. If I have made mistakes I am at a place where I can take the criticism and advice. On one forum the comment was made that if you post your work on a public forum you need to expect to receive both the yea and the nay comments. I now end my build posts with some variation of "comments and criticisms encouraged."


In the end I say hit me with your best shot.


joe
 
Re: CRITIQUE OR RIVET COUNTING? AND EDITORIAL

Ahhh Terry is taking out the BIG stick again and poking us.

Well for me I come on here to share my love for the hobby. I know I have a load to learn still and every model I build I try something new or difrent on it. This forum and its great contributers are great for a relatively newby like me. People here are willing to share theyr builds and how they did it without them feeling like they are going to be judged. This alows for a nice steady growth in the hobby for me personaly.

On a side note I have been in a slump this last 2 months and one build have me pulling out an old started project to see if I can maybe do a few of what I saw on that great build - I have been inspired once again by an build posted on here.


Hehehehehe :fencing
 
Re: CRITIQUE OR RIVET COUNTING? AND EDITORIAL

Like when i commented on your fuel cans on the lrdg :) i saw another very nice chevy and that guy glued the lid on the wrong side.. so you are not alone on that misstake :)

As long as it's friendly advice on how to improve your model i'm ok with it, but some people are just doing it to show of how much they know. (i wonder if some of them ever built a kit?)

If i see something that's not right, then usually i say something and i expect the same back.

//Mats

(y)
 
Re: CRITIQUE OR RIVET COUNTING? AND EDITORIAL

I am an unabashed rivet AND bolt counter. However, I know that people build for different reasons so I try to only offer constructive advice. They can take it or leave it. It is there for them, or anyone else who reads it, to use as they wish.

Regards,

Rivet counter doesn't necessarily equal nasty.

:D
 
Re: CRITIQUE OR RIVET COUNTING? AND EDITORIAL

Come on Saul, I doubt you fit that category as Psycho rivet counter that's for SA Dave.
Terry I know what you mean about those other forums and I have to agree with you there. I was searching for some info on the F8J and VF 111 only to be sarcastically told that they didn't fly J models at all and that he thought the J well was less than desirable. :vmad Well I am old enough to have pretty thick skin but still I wonder what license they have to be so judgmental. :idonno

Any way, Ill just say it is an E model and put the sharks mouth on it just to spite him. :D

It's not as bad when you are expecting it and it can be kinda fun to do something wrong to make them yell.

Hehehehehehe :evil:
 
Re: CRITIQUE OR RIVET COUNTING? AND EDITORIAL

I guess it's the hot rodder in me that likes the idea of combining parts to make something and the rivet counters take a lot of the fun out of modeling for me. Not every subject was photographed and just because there was one photo that shows something one way, does not mean that's the way they were ALL done.

I do like to hear real opinions, not just pats on the back, but all feed back is welcome. This is a modeling forum, so just looking at the pictures (lurking)is really not what this is all about. Get involved, you never know who is a friend and mentor you did not know you had.

:drinks

(y)
 
I used to really look for the atta boy comments. then something in me said wait, cant they see that I really screwed up on such and such. I started to really look for those that would tell me what I did wrong. Now I am just not sure where I fall. I spend a lot of time doing modifications. I know that I am not the greatest model builder. I know I make mistakes. (at times a great number of them) I do however look for the honest opinion. If I have made mistakes I am at a place where I can take the criticism and advice. On one forum the comment was made that if you post your work on a public forum you need to expect to receive both the yea and the nay comments. I now end my build posts with some variation of "comments and criticisms encouraged."


In the end I say hit me with your best shot.


joe

Attitude is everything. (y)
 
Re: CRITIQUE OR RIVET COUNTING? AND EDITORIAL

Any way, Ill just say it is an E model and put the sharks mouth on it just to spite him. :D

Please do! Inaccurate or not, I would love it!
:coolio

Truth be told, Ken Abrams has (had?) a signature which I loved along the lines of "Build how you like, Like how you build"

Regards,
 
Re: CRITIQUE OR RIVET COUNTING? AND EDITORIAL

Any way, Ill just say it is an E model and put the sharks mouth on it just to spite him. :D

Please do! Inaccurate or not, I would love it!
:coolio

Truth be told, Ken Abrams has (had?) a signature which I loved along the lines of "Build how you like, Like how you build"

Regards,
You got it Saul, all I need now are the correct decals
 
Re: CRITIQUE OR RIVET COUNTING? AND EDITORIAL

What scale? I can check my stash...

Regards,
 
Critique or rivet counting?

There are all kinds of modeling web forums covering every kind of modeling you can think of. Modelers Alliance is one the friendliest sites on the web. We promote kind and civilized conversation. We have zero tolerance for trolls and flame wars. Everyone here goes out of their way to encourage modeling and modelers. All these qualities are great things, but have we become so sweet that we don’t offer honest advice when we see something is not right or could be improved. Now I’m not advocating that MA go over to the dark side and become a group of psycho rivet counting individuals who won’t build the newest plane model out because the engine cowl opening is a scale inch too small. In 1/72 scale! However are we doing a disservice to modelers if we don’t point out things that could make them better modelers? Do we have a mutual admiration society where we don’t feel free to make constructive comments about each other’s work for fear of hurting someone’s feelings? Or our we just afraid to be labeled “Rivet counter”

Let’s face it this kind of thing can turn petty and mean spirited, and there are other web forums that seem to make it their mission to pick your build apart. Or worse yet they may not comment at all. I have to admit I have posted pictures of models that I have done here on some of those sites just to see what their resident “RC’s” will say and sometimes I have learned some things. It’s not easy to hear someone say “You know that version didn’t have one of those”, but you did learn something you can use the next time. As I have said before I think it is good for us as modelers to submit our work to the critical eye of someone else. They may be able to see what we have ignored.

I think we sometimes have a knee jerk response and move away from an honest critique of each other’s work because of the bad behavior we have witnessed on other sites. However too much sweetness and light can’t be a good thing either.

What do you think???

Terry don't you think you should get a few more builds under your belt before stirring the flames :rotf :rotf :evil:
 
For me it has always been more about just having fun gluing plastic together. But I also like to know when I've done something wrong since it helps me learn. But I will say I don't like when people say "why did you build that kit, don't you know how inaccurate it is" Most rivet counters I don't have an issue with but there are a few that are way over the top and you all know who they are.
 
Re: CRITIQUE OR RIVET COUNTING? AND EDITORIAL

I'm not so worried about the accuracy of a kit as I am the technique I use to try to make something look real. We've all seen the folks who get so worked up over lines and shapes but these models are not shrunk down duplicates, they are fair representations.

I want feed back on what can make this hunk of plastic come to life and escape the limitations of scale. Rather a bolt is .01mm off from where it's suppose to be makes no difference when you look at it and can't figure out if it's real or not.
 
Accuracy of a kit is not a subject for me. First and foremost I build for my very own pleasure. It is more important to me how well a kit goes together with the least amount of rework, than how accurate it is. Now if it comes to critique my work as far as the build itself goes ( missed paint, glue spots, crooked or seams, etc) that's a different matter. That helps me to pay more attention to what I am doing. I appreciate it if someone points something like that out to me. I know of model clubs were people stopped bringing in models just because no-one had anything good to say about it. People were just out to find mistakes of any kind. But I also understand Terry's point of view. Just my 2 cents.

Joe
 
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